Dreamers:
Before I begin, I don't believe this dream is a statement about Joyce Meyers; I wouldn't want to slander her in any way! I remember the first time I watched Joyce and how refreshing she was. I thought--finally, a minister who preaches on the real struggles (very openly and honestly!) that she has been through and come out of. I do believe Joyce is a very genuine woman and God has used her in such a huge way in teaching the gospel. I also like how she sort of makes fun of how she used to be and uses her family's personal experiences as examples in her teaching. So I don't have any negative feelings towards Joyce at all but lots of respect.
Dream:
I dreamed I was watching Joyce M. very up close. She was speaking as usual and the crowd was very involved and stirred up, even rowdy. Joyce had absolutely no make up on and her hair was done with only a few bobby pins. Her dress was common and not fancy in any way. Her dress in no way affected the power of her message.
Then I see a scene of her out back, looks like a loading dock with a couple of men of no worldly importance. She sat down and was talking with them like she was "one of the guys." She had the same dress/appearance as in the meeting, without frills.
Dream ends.
Not sure if this dream is wishful thinking on my part. But I decided to post it since there is some good food for thought in the dream.
God bless!
Peggy O.
plain Jane Joyce Meyers
plain Jane Joyce Meyers
Last edited by peggyo on Wed Aug 26, 2009 12:32 am, edited 3 times in total.
This says a LOT about Joyce Meyers, A WHOLE LOT! It is indeed a testimony of someone who lives what they preach. It is the ultimate test of faith, when you live outside the pulpit what you preach and express on it. Pray that she remains the humble servant she is!Then I see a scene of her out back, looks like a loading dock with a couple of men of no worldly importance. She sat down and was talking with them like she was "one of the guys." She had the same dress/appearance as in the meeting, without frills.
BLessings!
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Warrior Princess
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I have the Bride of Christ on my brain lately, so this might not be for you, but I hear "natural beauty." No covering up, no pretending, no hypocrisy, honest about our struggles, transparency, same inside and out. We, as the Bride, need to not be afraid to get our hands dirty, to hang out with the tax collectors and sinners, the so called "trash of society," etc in that transparency...handing out mercy and justice...the last shall be first.
Just some thoughts...toss if it doesn't fit.
Just some thoughts...toss if it doesn't fit.
~Warrior Princess
"Now come the days of the king."
"Now come the days of the king."
From the sounds of this I don't think this would be about Joyce. It seems you already had this impression of her. I think you are like her and the Lord is encouraging you, that you can be yourself totally and share what he has given you. Ok this is what I am getting. I am jumping out here. The laborers on the Dock are pastors, they are fellow laborers. God showing you the relationship you will have with church leaders. He is giving you a wise humble spirit. The loading doc is the place where the traditional church (storehouse) and the vehicles carrying precious cargo(Conference ministry) meet. Has he been speaking to you about doing Conferences? That feels right in my spirit. I hope that helps.
William
William
Dream interpreters:
Okay, it took me a while to digest all of this. Will throws me for a loop (prophetics will do that!).
I don't believe this dream is about clothing or our appearance. I believe it is symbolic of being our true selves, yes as Rev K says--same on the back porch as on the front. So if you have a pretty dress or a new hairstyle, please don't be afraid to wear that!
Joyce's message was just as powerful with (as in real life) or without (as this dream) pretty clothes or attractive attire. The message is what is important and our trueness in public and more private places.
Warrior Princess: Yes, maybe this Joyce M. is symbolic of God's idea of a natural beauty. Actually this Joyce did not really resemble the Joyce Meyers you and I know, even though in the dream I knew it was her. The dream Joyce had NO worldly attractiveness, just as it says in the word about Christ--he had no attractiveness that we should desire Him. My dream Joyce really was not attractive. We all know the real Joyce is. The lack of attractiveness in the dream Joyce didn't affect her spiritual power any though.
Will: Honestly, when I had this dream I did not know what it was about. I'm actually not really that much like Joyce M. Joyce I know has a choleric temperament and I'm the opposite of that. The motive gifting I operate most in is mercy and I know from her teaching that that isn't hers. My teaching motive gift is a lesser gifting, yet I'm called in that, and I teach more out of my exhorting gift. I KNOW Joyce M has a strong teaching gifting. So just to let everyone know that I'm really not much like Joyce.
I NEVER dream about celebrities and I don't put them on pedestals. I have only one Joyce M. book--the Battlefield of the Mind--and that only because a friend kept telling me I needed to get it. I make a point not to follow christian celebrities. My Tehilla friends are just as significant to me as Joyce M., really!
What I do believe is similar though is powerful ministry. And for me powerful ministry is real, genuine, truth--like the dream.
Will: I did have a dream not long ago about the town where I live. There's been some trouble here and God has been using it to teach me. In the dream I was at the main intersection of this town and a stampede of children were running from west to east of town. In this process I was handed a baby (ministry). So even though I am preparing to move away, I believe God has shown me there is yet some work to be done here and possibly the "children" (pastors or whomever) are ready now to come to the table and be fed.
I have been aware unto myself (no prophetic person has said) that I am called to teach leaders how to lead and teachers how to teach. This would be daunting if I looked at it too hard. I have been somewhat in seclusion for quite a while. I don't even watch Christian television. So thank you Will for the encouragement you give. I'm not at this point ready to do anything large scale. I'm not quite sure the leadership in this community is thrilled with me. But I think it's more that they just don't want to go where I am (they don't want to have their ministry focused on the truly needy) and that is the greatest hindrance, not that they have anything big against me.
I do believe there may be opportunity to speak to leadership in my town (a good place to start!) but I'll need some prayers to help pray this through. I am willing to do this even though I'm not a person that likes public speaking. But it is clear from this dream that I only need to be just myself--bobby pins and all--to deliver the message God has.
I was told some time ago my prophetic message to the church was out of I Corinthians, I believe it's 1:27, that God uses the weak, foolish, lowly and despised things of this world... I asked God if I could have another message? I knew it wasn't going to go over well. Much of the church isn't ready to hear this, and I know from what I have seen in my small town in Minnesota that the Christian community here for the most part isn't ready. They're offended. But I have been there too (offended) and God has given grace to overcome, though I still battle daily tendencies to think worldly.
Anyway, pardon my longwindedness today. I know God is calling me to do what seems a difficult thing for me. But the dream and my Tehilla friends are an encouragement to me to forge ahead, in spite of how things appear. Looks like God has some victory in store!
God bless you today,
Peggy O.
Okay, it took me a while to digest all of this. Will throws me for a loop (prophetics will do that!).
I don't believe this dream is about clothing or our appearance. I believe it is symbolic of being our true selves, yes as Rev K says--same on the back porch as on the front. So if you have a pretty dress or a new hairstyle, please don't be afraid to wear that!
Joyce's message was just as powerful with (as in real life) or without (as this dream) pretty clothes or attractive attire. The message is what is important and our trueness in public and more private places.
Warrior Princess: Yes, maybe this Joyce M. is symbolic of God's idea of a natural beauty. Actually this Joyce did not really resemble the Joyce Meyers you and I know, even though in the dream I knew it was her. The dream Joyce had NO worldly attractiveness, just as it says in the word about Christ--he had no attractiveness that we should desire Him. My dream Joyce really was not attractive. We all know the real Joyce is. The lack of attractiveness in the dream Joyce didn't affect her spiritual power any though.
Will: Honestly, when I had this dream I did not know what it was about. I'm actually not really that much like Joyce M. Joyce I know has a choleric temperament and I'm the opposite of that. The motive gifting I operate most in is mercy and I know from her teaching that that isn't hers. My teaching motive gift is a lesser gifting, yet I'm called in that, and I teach more out of my exhorting gift. I KNOW Joyce M has a strong teaching gifting. So just to let everyone know that I'm really not much like Joyce.
I NEVER dream about celebrities and I don't put them on pedestals. I have only one Joyce M. book--the Battlefield of the Mind--and that only because a friend kept telling me I needed to get it. I make a point not to follow christian celebrities. My Tehilla friends are just as significant to me as Joyce M., really!
What I do believe is similar though is powerful ministry. And for me powerful ministry is real, genuine, truth--like the dream.
Will: I did have a dream not long ago about the town where I live. There's been some trouble here and God has been using it to teach me. In the dream I was at the main intersection of this town and a stampede of children were running from west to east of town. In this process I was handed a baby (ministry). So even though I am preparing to move away, I believe God has shown me there is yet some work to be done here and possibly the "children" (pastors or whomever) are ready now to come to the table and be fed.
I have been aware unto myself (no prophetic person has said) that I am called to teach leaders how to lead and teachers how to teach. This would be daunting if I looked at it too hard. I have been somewhat in seclusion for quite a while. I don't even watch Christian television. So thank you Will for the encouragement you give. I'm not at this point ready to do anything large scale. I'm not quite sure the leadership in this community is thrilled with me. But I think it's more that they just don't want to go where I am (they don't want to have their ministry focused on the truly needy) and that is the greatest hindrance, not that they have anything big against me.
I do believe there may be opportunity to speak to leadership in my town (a good place to start!) but I'll need some prayers to help pray this through. I am willing to do this even though I'm not a person that likes public speaking. But it is clear from this dream that I only need to be just myself--bobby pins and all--to deliver the message God has.
I was told some time ago my prophetic message to the church was out of I Corinthians, I believe it's 1:27, that God uses the weak, foolish, lowly and despised things of this world... I asked God if I could have another message? I knew it wasn't going to go over well. Much of the church isn't ready to hear this, and I know from what I have seen in my small town in Minnesota that the Christian community here for the most part isn't ready. They're offended. But I have been there too (offended) and God has given grace to overcome, though I still battle daily tendencies to think worldly.
Anyway, pardon my longwindedness today. I know God is calling me to do what seems a difficult thing for me. But the dream and my Tehilla friends are an encouragement to me to forge ahead, in spite of how things appear. Looks like God has some victory in store!
God bless you today,
Peggy O.
Will:
I just wanted to reassure you that your assessment of the call I have towards pastors/leadership was not off. I recently had a dream about being given a new auto repair shop. It was a perfectly brand new building. Then in the dream I'm seeing what I believe to be an angry and rather unwilling car owner, hoping in real life he is not my first customer.
Anyway, I did realize through this dream that this is a new area of my calling in Christ, to serve in repairing, fine tuning and maybe sometimes overall ministries.
In the natural, I would seem an unlikely candidate for this type of work. I'm a woman for one thing, unmarried, and well sort of a hippie. These and other things haven't done wonders for my reception. I do, however, have a sense of humor. Keeping in mind the entire gospel is really a paradox, it all seems appropriate.
Just wanted you to know your prophectic sensor is working well these days and I'm extremely thankful you were courageous enough to say it as you believed it.
God bless you!
Peggy O.
I just wanted to reassure you that your assessment of the call I have towards pastors/leadership was not off. I recently had a dream about being given a new auto repair shop. It was a perfectly brand new building. Then in the dream I'm seeing what I believe to be an angry and rather unwilling car owner, hoping in real life he is not my first customer.
Anyway, I did realize through this dream that this is a new area of my calling in Christ, to serve in repairing, fine tuning and maybe sometimes overall ministries.
In the natural, I would seem an unlikely candidate for this type of work. I'm a woman for one thing, unmarried, and well sort of a hippie. These and other things haven't done wonders for my reception. I do, however, have a sense of humor. Keeping in mind the entire gospel is really a paradox, it all seems appropriate.
Just wanted you to know your prophectic sensor is working well these days and I'm extremely thankful you were courageous enough to say it as you believed it.
God bless you!
Peggy O.
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Robert159347
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Does anyone else feel like this doesn't sit well. I mean if a woman was doing what God wanted and was praising him shouldn/t her hair be down and beautiful ,and should a woman try and be one of the guys??? Not accusing her just stating facts. If you look at past dreams when God praises a woman it is very opposite of this. And if she had this dream where some other woman had her hair up like this to me it would be interpreted as she was holding her glory back. Again I'm not attacking her ,but it is always good to have two sides of the story to get a full view. Anyone else feel like this?
"I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me." Gal 2:20
Robert:
Thanks for your input. I had thought of the scripture that tells us we are neither Greek nor Jew, male nor female, but I'd neglected to post it. In the spiritual sense, there is no male or female and no nationality distinctions. These things are for our natural lives, and I believe hurdles to get over.
I didn't see this dream Joyce M. as nonfeminine any more than the in real life Joyce M. I just see her as a strong woman. The dream Joyce M. didn't have her hair up. It was merely pulled back some around her face with bobby pins (so her hair wouldn't be in her face). The dream Joyce as well was wearing a dress. It just wasn't what you'd call worldly impressive.
God indeed does call some women into predominantly male circles--leadership. Deborah the judge of the old testament was such a woman, and the man in charge of the army of the time didn't want to go into battle without her because he knew she was spiritually powerful.
It can be a daunting thing for a woman to answer a call to leadership that requires her to work right alongside men, and Deborah of the old testament only reluctantly crossed this line. Me too! It will be a test of my faith to fully serve the body in the capacity God has called me to. I've already had a taste of some of the opposition that I may face.
I believe the dream Joyce does have beauty--the within sort of beauty--of fulfilling her purpose in Christ--stirring up the body, without much concern for her physical appearance though. She goes where God has called her, regardless of glamor or prestige or what people will think of her, and she treats people like people, not genders or social classes, etc.
Out of necessity (I lost my job!), I had to take on a school bus driving job. I know this was God's choice for me. It's a predominantly male occupation, nearly half are women drivers now though. It's taken some time to gain the respect of the men that work in our district. They were reluctant, some more than others. Some I know will never respect me as they would a male driver. After 2 years, I have to say it's a joy to be just treated as a person, not a woman, whether hair up/down, long/short, beautiful or not so beautiful. That's what I meant by she was just "one of the guys."
Personally I enjoy seeing genders cross the traditional boundaries--men as grade school teachers or nurses, women as handymen or mechanics. Some people are just called to it.
Sometimes at our women's Bible studies we have male speakers. Honestly it's not a big deal. We don't treat it or them any different than if we'd had a female speaker that day. That's what I saw in my dream. There wasn't a gender gap.
This seems a bigger issue for women though...
Thanks for voicing your concern, Robert! Maybe others will have thoughts here also.
Bless you~
Peggy O.
Thanks for your input. I had thought of the scripture that tells us we are neither Greek nor Jew, male nor female, but I'd neglected to post it. In the spiritual sense, there is no male or female and no nationality distinctions. These things are for our natural lives, and I believe hurdles to get over.
I didn't see this dream Joyce M. as nonfeminine any more than the in real life Joyce M. I just see her as a strong woman. The dream Joyce M. didn't have her hair up. It was merely pulled back some around her face with bobby pins (so her hair wouldn't be in her face). The dream Joyce as well was wearing a dress. It just wasn't what you'd call worldly impressive.
God indeed does call some women into predominantly male circles--leadership. Deborah the judge of the old testament was such a woman, and the man in charge of the army of the time didn't want to go into battle without her because he knew she was spiritually powerful.
It can be a daunting thing for a woman to answer a call to leadership that requires her to work right alongside men, and Deborah of the old testament only reluctantly crossed this line. Me too! It will be a test of my faith to fully serve the body in the capacity God has called me to. I've already had a taste of some of the opposition that I may face.
I believe the dream Joyce does have beauty--the within sort of beauty--of fulfilling her purpose in Christ--stirring up the body, without much concern for her physical appearance though. She goes where God has called her, regardless of glamor or prestige or what people will think of her, and she treats people like people, not genders or social classes, etc.
Out of necessity (I lost my job!), I had to take on a school bus driving job. I know this was God's choice for me. It's a predominantly male occupation, nearly half are women drivers now though. It's taken some time to gain the respect of the men that work in our district. They were reluctant, some more than others. Some I know will never respect me as they would a male driver. After 2 years, I have to say it's a joy to be just treated as a person, not a woman, whether hair up/down, long/short, beautiful or not so beautiful. That's what I meant by she was just "one of the guys."
Personally I enjoy seeing genders cross the traditional boundaries--men as grade school teachers or nurses, women as handymen or mechanics. Some people are just called to it.
Sometimes at our women's Bible studies we have male speakers. Honestly it's not a big deal. We don't treat it or them any different than if we'd had a female speaker that day. That's what I saw in my dream. There wasn't a gender gap.
This seems a bigger issue for women though...
Thanks for voicing your concern, Robert! Maybe others will have thoughts here also.
Bless you~
Peggy O.
Will/Robert:
I believe Paul was speaking to a society in which the women were uneducated. Not only that, but Christianity was new. It was men who were made disciples and they were the ones who were called to shoulder the burden of seeding Christianity throughout the world. Although today it seems more women are followers of Christ than men.
But to me leadership would include anyone who is a more mature believer also, not just a pastor or church headship.
But to say that women have no input into ministry would be religious and really stifling. I guess I see this kind of call more as an encouraging/exhortation type call and a stirring up.
My son participates in a denomination that literally does not permit women to speak in the church.
And I know I'm called in the area of ministry repair. And most ministry is headed by men.
I do believe from some of the dreams I have had that I will not be alone in this call.
So what's a woman to do?
Thanks you two--maybe you can figure it out for me.
Blessings~
Peggy O.
I believe Paul was speaking to a society in which the women were uneducated. Not only that, but Christianity was new. It was men who were made disciples and they were the ones who were called to shoulder the burden of seeding Christianity throughout the world. Although today it seems more women are followers of Christ than men.
But to me leadership would include anyone who is a more mature believer also, not just a pastor or church headship.
But to say that women have no input into ministry would be religious and really stifling. I guess I see this kind of call more as an encouraging/exhortation type call and a stirring up.
My son participates in a denomination that literally does not permit women to speak in the church.
And I know I'm called in the area of ministry repair. And most ministry is headed by men.
I do believe from some of the dreams I have had that I will not be alone in this call.
So what's a woman to do?
Thanks you two--maybe you can figure it out for me.
Blessings~
Peggy O.
Peggyo-of course you have to do what you feel called to. We are in a time when the leader of our nations name is Barak, I think every woman with a call to public ministry should pay attention to that Because Deborah came along side of Barak. That battle was finally won at the hand of a woman.
As far as the time and culture, you could be right about that, I just think that we have been missing something there in regards to what Paul is saying. I think that God is wanting to restore men to there place. Jezebel was finally overthrown by a king whose name was Jehu, which means; "Yahweh is He or Him". In 1Peter 3 it tells us that Sarah called Abraham Lord. I don't understand it fully, but the Lord told Eve that her pain and labor in bearing children would be greatly increased. I believe he was telling us that he placed a longing or a travail in the heart of women for their husband that will give birth to the mature son ship that romans 8 talks about.
A man cannot be truly fully restored to a woman until he is fully restored to God. I don't think we have seen the thing I am talking about in our time or in times past. It is special. Like I said, perhaps i am not understanding this correctly, but that is what it looks like to me.
William
As far as the time and culture, you could be right about that, I just think that we have been missing something there in regards to what Paul is saying. I think that God is wanting to restore men to there place. Jezebel was finally overthrown by a king whose name was Jehu, which means; "Yahweh is He or Him". In 1Peter 3 it tells us that Sarah called Abraham Lord. I don't understand it fully, but the Lord told Eve that her pain and labor in bearing children would be greatly increased. I believe he was telling us that he placed a longing or a travail in the heart of women for their husband that will give birth to the mature son ship that romans 8 talks about.
A man cannot be truly fully restored to a woman until he is fully restored to God. I don't think we have seen the thing I am talking about in our time or in times past. It is special. Like I said, perhaps i am not understanding this correctly, but that is what it looks like to me.
William
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Robert159347
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- Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:15 am
Maybe G-d wants you to preach to other women or children. Maybe also to work in the church and to help it and keep it organized so that it can run smoothly. I do respect the fact that you do want to do everything you can for G-d ,but you also have to do what he wants first. If G-d had intended women to preach in the future, he would have said something in Timothy to imply that it was the women of that time. Woman have a different role than men in a church ,and were made for different things. Just like everyone in a band is important; not everyone is meant to be the lead singer. I know you must be thinking it's easy for me to say ,because I'm a man and can be a pastor ,and I would tell you just because I'm a man doesn't mean I'm meant to be a pastor. G-d knows whats best for you ,and if he meant for you to be a pastor than wouldn't he have made you a man. Again, I appreciate all the women on this board wanting to do all they can for G-d ,but you have to humble yourself and say Father, let your will, not mine, be done.
"I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me." Gal 2:20
Rob:
I'm not called to be a pastor, nor do I have a desire to be a pastor. Nor do I have an organizational gift to help keep the church run smoothly. That would be very out of my league.
I actually just wanted to be an intercessor and do small bits of service here and there. I do know I have a call to children and new believers. But I also have vision for leadership, and I believe that is my call towards leadership--as a helps/exhortation calling and a bit of prophetic vision. I know too I have a call to write, but writing isn't the most efficient way to communicate. Not so many people read any more. So speaking or I thought possibly the internet are better avenues. I will follow God's leading there.
In the audience in my dream, there were both men and women. I see women's leadership just as valuable as men's. But too I recognize more mature believers in a spiritual leadership role as well, whether they hold an official office of leadership in the church or not.
And I look at callings maybe a bit differently than you do. I spoke with a male friend the other day and we both expressed that we would never desire to be a pastor--he has several brothers who pastor and we both know the responsibility and even trouble of that position. But I said to him too--you can be a pastor of sorts without being head of a church, by shepherding people wherever you are, and that shepherd call, or ability to nurture the sheep, does not have to express itself in a head pastorship. He agreed and is content with that, as I am. I can preach to a friend in the aisles of Walmart but may not preach in an auditorium. I don't see the difference, preaching is preaching, teaching is teaching, serving is serving, whether you have a title or an office in a church or not. And we know we are all called to preach the gospel, as in the great commission, whether through funding or being the one doing the actual sharing.
I think God will use me with both men and women. I guess I see men and women as more alike than different, especially as I grow older. It's hard to make general statements, as normal can be from A to Z, and sometimes God throws us a curve ball. There can be men who want to work in the nursery or with the children or serve in the kitchen, which is a more traditional role for women. I believe that should be acceptable. Some are women gifted in building maintenance. I guess I see men and women being called to have more of a hand-in-hand call to "work together," than maybe the traditional church has done things. And I see women as an extremely vital part of that, as the scripture tells us the weaker vessels are the more indispensable part of the body.
I recently posted a dream--pastor man crying--about a man in my town who is trying to pastor a church in my town. I'm aware that he is not called in this capacity and tried to share this with some of the leadership but was not heard. Then I had a dream of his ministry miscarrying--they've had several splits already. I believe the dream is prophetic. So I am aware that all men are not called to pastor or head a church.
I have no desire to be a singer in a band. I'm 50 years old and appreciate my anonymity more than you know. Even if I write, my hope (or temptation!) is to do that under a pen name. And truly, it will be more humbling to answer a call like this than to just remain a behind-the-scenes intercessor. I DON'T LIKE THE LIMELIGHT. It's an uncomfortable call for me. Those who know me know this, but I do have a great love to share the gospel or just simple truths to those I encounter, and I practice this daily, wherever I go--for the sake of Christ--not for my personal sake because it doesn't always do well for my social life. But I find both men and women who listen.
I believe my call is more as a service call toward leadership and to meet whatever their needs are, so that they can better serve their sheep, to come alongside and support with vision, etc. And I do have much to offer towards leadership.
So I'm going to leave you with this Robert and I'm done with talking over this issue. I'm aware people believe differently. As I said, my oldest son is part of a fellowship that believe women should not speak in the church. But I let him have his belief. I don't argue with him. I told him that him having salvation and that we can love each other and spend our lives sharing the gospel is so much more important than this other stuff when we get together and I don't want to argue (He loves to debate and I don't!). He is free to make his own choices. We talk about other things and I am very happy that he is having success on the mission field where he is.
When Joyce received her call and told what kind of a call it was, she shared it and she was told with a personality like hers, she could not answer a call like this. But God knew what he was doing, if you do believe she is a woman who is called. And I would say Joyce has probably had a larger impact on the church in the last 15 years than anyone else I know. Would we want to take that away because of her gender? I wouldn't touch it!
I don't believe so much that you and I disagree, but that you thought I wanted to be a pastor (which has never been true). But if you are believing that women should have no part in leadership at all or have no input into leadership at all, then we would differ there, because I believe women (and youth and seniors and other nonpastoral types) have an extremely vital part in assisting leadership and spreading the gospel.
So thanks for your comments. They've helped me to think through this issue in a way I never would have if you hadn't shared.
God bless your day Robert!
Peggy O.
I'm not called to be a pastor, nor do I have a desire to be a pastor. Nor do I have an organizational gift to help keep the church run smoothly. That would be very out of my league.
I actually just wanted to be an intercessor and do small bits of service here and there. I do know I have a call to children and new believers. But I also have vision for leadership, and I believe that is my call towards leadership--as a helps/exhortation calling and a bit of prophetic vision. I know too I have a call to write, but writing isn't the most efficient way to communicate. Not so many people read any more. So speaking or I thought possibly the internet are better avenues. I will follow God's leading there.
In the audience in my dream, there were both men and women. I see women's leadership just as valuable as men's. But too I recognize more mature believers in a spiritual leadership role as well, whether they hold an official office of leadership in the church or not.
And I look at callings maybe a bit differently than you do. I spoke with a male friend the other day and we both expressed that we would never desire to be a pastor--he has several brothers who pastor and we both know the responsibility and even trouble of that position. But I said to him too--you can be a pastor of sorts without being head of a church, by shepherding people wherever you are, and that shepherd call, or ability to nurture the sheep, does not have to express itself in a head pastorship. He agreed and is content with that, as I am. I can preach to a friend in the aisles of Walmart but may not preach in an auditorium. I don't see the difference, preaching is preaching, teaching is teaching, serving is serving, whether you have a title or an office in a church or not. And we know we are all called to preach the gospel, as in the great commission, whether through funding or being the one doing the actual sharing.
I think God will use me with both men and women. I guess I see men and women as more alike than different, especially as I grow older. It's hard to make general statements, as normal can be from A to Z, and sometimes God throws us a curve ball. There can be men who want to work in the nursery or with the children or serve in the kitchen, which is a more traditional role for women. I believe that should be acceptable. Some are women gifted in building maintenance. I guess I see men and women being called to have more of a hand-in-hand call to "work together," than maybe the traditional church has done things. And I see women as an extremely vital part of that, as the scripture tells us the weaker vessels are the more indispensable part of the body.
I recently posted a dream--pastor man crying--about a man in my town who is trying to pastor a church in my town. I'm aware that he is not called in this capacity and tried to share this with some of the leadership but was not heard. Then I had a dream of his ministry miscarrying--they've had several splits already. I believe the dream is prophetic. So I am aware that all men are not called to pastor or head a church.
I have no desire to be a singer in a band. I'm 50 years old and appreciate my anonymity more than you know. Even if I write, my hope (or temptation!) is to do that under a pen name. And truly, it will be more humbling to answer a call like this than to just remain a behind-the-scenes intercessor. I DON'T LIKE THE LIMELIGHT. It's an uncomfortable call for me. Those who know me know this, but I do have a great love to share the gospel or just simple truths to those I encounter, and I practice this daily, wherever I go--for the sake of Christ--not for my personal sake because it doesn't always do well for my social life. But I find both men and women who listen.
I believe my call is more as a service call toward leadership and to meet whatever their needs are, so that they can better serve their sheep, to come alongside and support with vision, etc. And I do have much to offer towards leadership.
So I'm going to leave you with this Robert and I'm done with talking over this issue. I'm aware people believe differently. As I said, my oldest son is part of a fellowship that believe women should not speak in the church. But I let him have his belief. I don't argue with him. I told him that him having salvation and that we can love each other and spend our lives sharing the gospel is so much more important than this other stuff when we get together and I don't want to argue (He loves to debate and I don't!). He is free to make his own choices. We talk about other things and I am very happy that he is having success on the mission field where he is.
When Joyce received her call and told what kind of a call it was, she shared it and she was told with a personality like hers, she could not answer a call like this. But God knew what he was doing, if you do believe she is a woman who is called. And I would say Joyce has probably had a larger impact on the church in the last 15 years than anyone else I know. Would we want to take that away because of her gender? I wouldn't touch it!
I don't believe so much that you and I disagree, but that you thought I wanted to be a pastor (which has never been true). But if you are believing that women should have no part in leadership at all or have no input into leadership at all, then we would differ there, because I believe women (and youth and seniors and other nonpastoral types) have an extremely vital part in assisting leadership and spreading the gospel.
So thanks for your comments. They've helped me to think through this issue in a way I never would have if you hadn't shared.
God bless your day Robert!
Peggy O.
Last edited by peggyo on Tue Aug 25, 2009 7:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.