Last night I had this dream. I was an observer and not involved in the dream itself. Let me say first that I am not from the USA, so I make no assumptions or predictions about this dream being connected to that or any particular country. Also, I do not have any sense of timing, if this is literal -which it may not be. It may be about spiritual warfare. But since I was observing and not taking part, I think it may be more than a personal dream.
I saw dark red ground all around. I realized the dirt was soaked with blood.
I saw the word "WAR" in capital letters.
I saw two men in something like shallow boxes as if they had been stored there. Or perhaps they were boxes drawn around photos or illustrations of them like windows on a computer page. I knew they were being "re-activated" or being called into duty. One was Ezekiel.
I woke up and wrote down the dream, but I couldn't remember who the other man was. Later I went back to bed and dreamed about the two men again. This time I knew the other man was Gideon.
end of dream
This one was more personal. Yesterday I dreamed (I don't remember if I was actually asleep) about walking beside a playing field surrounded by a chain link fence. In front of me a the earth parted like in those old movies that showed the parting of the Red Sea -with walls of water on either side. In my vision there were high vertical walls of moving loose light-coloured dirt and stones on either side. I heard, "Keep your eyes on the path."
WAR
Charys....you'll know this already no doubt
Gideon: mighty warrior
Ezekiel: strength of God
Ezekiel prophesies "I am against you, oh Gog"
...it was clear what Gog represented to the people of God in its original context but my question is do we as God's people understand what Gog represents in our epoch? ...I am not of the persuasion that this apocalyptic war is a reference to a latter day events against the current political state of Israel (which may well put me at variance with many if not most on this board) but that it has much to say about the war against the kingdom of God established in and through his own here on earth:
[His own being....John 10:27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.]
Grace
charlie
Gideon: mighty warrior
Ezekiel: strength of God
Ezekiel prophesies "I am against you, oh Gog"
...it was clear what Gog represented to the people of God in its original context but my question is do we as God's people understand what Gog represents in our epoch? ...I am not of the persuasion that this apocalyptic war is a reference to a latter day events against the current political state of Israel (which may well put me at variance with many if not most on this board) but that it has much to say about the war against the kingdom of God established in and through his own here on earth:
[His own being....John 10:27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.]
Grace
charlie
Charlie
Jesus said: I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Therefore, whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 18:3
Jesus said: I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Therefore, whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 18:3
Thanks, Charlie.
I'm trying to figure out what Gideon and Ezekiel had in common. They both seemed to be unlikely men who received dramatic calls in times of fear and apostasy and war. As for Gog and Magog I am also wary of charts and diagrams that try to fill in missing details with information limited to current times.
I saw these guys being called or commissioned or re-commissioned.
I found this after doing a search on Gideon and Ezekiel:
Theology of the Commissioning Narratives
Two major theological ideas emerge from either form of these commissioning narratives. First, leadership of God’s people is not something to be sought and cannot be accomplished by the skills and strengths of the individual. The great leaders of the Bible did not campaign for the position; they were placed there by God, by the community, or by situations in which they sought counsel from God. Not a single leader of the Old Testament is portrayed as having in themselves the abilities to be a great leader. Even with figures that are remembered as having great personal skills (Joseph, David, Solomon, Nehemiah, or NT leaders like Peter or Paul), the biblical record is careful to attribute their "success" to God’s presence in their lives, their faithful response to Him, and their understanding of their role in the service of God, not to their personal proficiency or charisma.
In fact, a careful examination of the narratives reveal that often God chooses leaders that are totally outside the accepted power structures: the youngest child (David), a woman (Deborah), a wandering Aramean (Abraham), a scheming liar (Jacob), a coward (Gideon), a simple fisherman (Peter), a teenage girl from a remote country village (Mary). There is far more than romantic imagery in the birth of Jesus in the stable of a relatively unimportant Judean village to poor peasant parents, and in the fact that the first worshippers of the Christ were shepherds.
Second, leadership does not directly relate to what skills a person possesses, because ultimately it is not the power structures, the connectedness, the oratory, the management expertise, the personal flair, or the intellect that makes the difference. In another context, to another leader (Zerubbabel), a prophet declares "not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit [presence], declares the Lord." (Zech 4:6). This is the basic idea that is expressed in all of these narratives. The questions or objections in the commissioning narratives serve to confess the inability of the person to carry out the task. It is a way to say, "I cannot possibly do this." That kind of humility before the task of leadership is understood to be a crucial element of good leaders in Scripture. The same purpose is accomplished in the narratives in which the commissioning is grounded in an encounter with God "high and lofty" (Isa 6:1) that leads to the confession "Woe is me . . . for I am unclean" (v. 5).
And yet, the promise is always, "I will be with you." The promise of God to divinely commissioned leaders is that, while they cannot lead God’s people in their own strength, He will be with them to enable and empower them through His strength. It is only when they realize that they cannot adequately lead God’s people, are willing to confess that inadequacy, and are willing to defer to someone else, that they are in a position to hear and accept the promise of God’s presence. And that acknowledgement of the power and presence of God active in the world is enough to sustain the leader.
Paul declares, "We have this treasure [of the Gospel] in earthen vessels that the surpassing greatness of the power may be of God, and not of ourselves" (2 Cor 4:7). This follows closely his statement: "For what we preach is not ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, with ourselves as your servants for Jesus' sake" (4:5). Paul’s favorite term for himself was "slave" or "servant," both of God and of the people. But he also affirmed, relating to his task as leader, "I can do all things through him who gives me strength" (Phil 4:13).
That same idea echoed as a warning to Israel throughout the OT, the temptation to assume that success was the result of human effort and skill (Deut 8:11-20, Josh 7:3). The fact that it is repeated so often, in both Testaments, should itself be a significant warning to us, and to potential leaders. In this sense, the commissioning narrative becomes a significant theological confession.
-Dennis Bratcher
more: http://www.crivoice.org/prophetcall.html
Keeping an eye open for unlikely heroes.
I'm trying to figure out what Gideon and Ezekiel had in common. They both seemed to be unlikely men who received dramatic calls in times of fear and apostasy and war. As for Gog and Magog I am also wary of charts and diagrams that try to fill in missing details with information limited to current times.
I saw these guys being called or commissioned or re-commissioned.
I found this after doing a search on Gideon and Ezekiel:
Theology of the Commissioning Narratives
Two major theological ideas emerge from either form of these commissioning narratives. First, leadership of God’s people is not something to be sought and cannot be accomplished by the skills and strengths of the individual. The great leaders of the Bible did not campaign for the position; they were placed there by God, by the community, or by situations in which they sought counsel from God. Not a single leader of the Old Testament is portrayed as having in themselves the abilities to be a great leader. Even with figures that are remembered as having great personal skills (Joseph, David, Solomon, Nehemiah, or NT leaders like Peter or Paul), the biblical record is careful to attribute their "success" to God’s presence in their lives, their faithful response to Him, and their understanding of their role in the service of God, not to their personal proficiency or charisma.
In fact, a careful examination of the narratives reveal that often God chooses leaders that are totally outside the accepted power structures: the youngest child (David), a woman (Deborah), a wandering Aramean (Abraham), a scheming liar (Jacob), a coward (Gideon), a simple fisherman (Peter), a teenage girl from a remote country village (Mary). There is far more than romantic imagery in the birth of Jesus in the stable of a relatively unimportant Judean village to poor peasant parents, and in the fact that the first worshippers of the Christ were shepherds.
Second, leadership does not directly relate to what skills a person possesses, because ultimately it is not the power structures, the connectedness, the oratory, the management expertise, the personal flair, or the intellect that makes the difference. In another context, to another leader (Zerubbabel), a prophet declares "not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit [presence], declares the Lord." (Zech 4:6). This is the basic idea that is expressed in all of these narratives. The questions or objections in the commissioning narratives serve to confess the inability of the person to carry out the task. It is a way to say, "I cannot possibly do this." That kind of humility before the task of leadership is understood to be a crucial element of good leaders in Scripture. The same purpose is accomplished in the narratives in which the commissioning is grounded in an encounter with God "high and lofty" (Isa 6:1) that leads to the confession "Woe is me . . . for I am unclean" (v. 5).
And yet, the promise is always, "I will be with you." The promise of God to divinely commissioned leaders is that, while they cannot lead God’s people in their own strength, He will be with them to enable and empower them through His strength. It is only when they realize that they cannot adequately lead God’s people, are willing to confess that inadequacy, and are willing to defer to someone else, that they are in a position to hear and accept the promise of God’s presence. And that acknowledgement of the power and presence of God active in the world is enough to sustain the leader.
Paul declares, "We have this treasure [of the Gospel] in earthen vessels that the surpassing greatness of the power may be of God, and not of ourselves" (2 Cor 4:7). This follows closely his statement: "For what we preach is not ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, with ourselves as your servants for Jesus' sake" (4:5). Paul’s favorite term for himself was "slave" or "servant," both of God and of the people. But he also affirmed, relating to his task as leader, "I can do all things through him who gives me strength" (Phil 4:13).
That same idea echoed as a warning to Israel throughout the OT, the temptation to assume that success was the result of human effort and skill (Deut 8:11-20, Josh 7:3). The fact that it is repeated so often, in both Testaments, should itself be a significant warning to us, and to potential leaders. In this sense, the commissioning narrative becomes a significant theological confession.
-Dennis Bratcher
more: http://www.crivoice.org/prophetcall.html
Keeping an eye open for unlikely heroes.
...that I might know Him...
I don't have an interpretation for the dream, but I do believe it concerns the church as a whole because of the symbolism.
I hope something I've written strikes a cord with what you experienced:
14I looked, and there before me was a white cloud, and seated on the cloud was one "like a son of man"[a] with a crown of gold on his head and a sharp sickle in his hand. 15Then another angel came out of the temple and called in a loud voice to him who was sitting on the cloud, "Take your sickle and reap, because the time to reap has come, for the harvest of the earth is ripe." 16So he who was seated on the cloud swung his sickle over the earth, and the earth was harvested.
17Another angel came out of the temple in heaven, and he too had a sharp sickle. 18Still another angel, who had charge of the fire, came from the altar and called in a loud voice to him who had the sharp sickle, "Take your sharp sickle and gather the clusters of grapes from the earth's vine, because its grapes are ripe." 19The angel swung his sickle on the earth, gathered its grapes and threw them into the great winepress of God's wrath. 20They were trampled in the winepress outside the city, and blood flowed out of the press, rising as high as the horses' bridles for a distance of 1,600 stadia.
*****************************************************
Obviously Ezekiel and Gideon were both chosen by G-d to perform a work for Him.
Ezekiel was shown an awesome vision of a valley of dry bones in which the Lord showed him the condition of the spiritual deadness of the Jewish people in his day.
He told Ezekiel to prophesy to the bones pray for them that they might live. (It concerned the THE SPIRITUAL DEATH AND RESURRECTION OF THE ISRAELITE NATION)
************************************************
God chose Gideon, a young man from an otherwise unremarkable clan from the tribe of Manasseh, to free the people of Israel and to condemn their worship of idols.
Very unsure of both himself and God's command, he requested proof of God's will by two miracles, performed on consecutive nights and the exact opposite of each other:
36Then Gideon said to God, "You say that you have decided to use me to rescue Israel. 37Well, I am putting some wool on the ground where we thresh the wheat. If in the morning there is dew only on the wool but not on the ground, then I will know that you are going to use me to rescue Israel."
38That is exactly what happened. When Gideon got up early the next morning, he squeezed the wool and wrung enough dew out of it to fill a bowl with water.
39Then Gideon said to God, "Don't be angry with me; let me speak just once more. Please let me make one more test with the wool. This time let the wool be dry, and the ground be wet."
40 That night God did that very thing. The next morning the wool was dry, but the ground was wet with dew. (Judges 6:36-40, Good News Bible)
I hope something I've written strikes a cord with what you experienced:
The Harvest of the EarthI saw dark red ground all around. I realized the dirt was soaked with blood.
I saw the word "WAR" in capital letters.
14I looked, and there before me was a white cloud, and seated on the cloud was one "like a son of man"[a] with a crown of gold on his head and a sharp sickle in his hand. 15Then another angel came out of the temple and called in a loud voice to him who was sitting on the cloud, "Take your sickle and reap, because the time to reap has come, for the harvest of the earth is ripe." 16So he who was seated on the cloud swung his sickle over the earth, and the earth was harvested.
17Another angel came out of the temple in heaven, and he too had a sharp sickle. 18Still another angel, who had charge of the fire, came from the altar and called in a loud voice to him who had the sharp sickle, "Take your sharp sickle and gather the clusters of grapes from the earth's vine, because its grapes are ripe." 19The angel swung his sickle on the earth, gathered its grapes and threw them into the great winepress of God's wrath. 20They were trampled in the winepress outside the city, and blood flowed out of the press, rising as high as the horses' bridles for a distance of 1,600 stadia.
*****************************************************
Obviously Ezekiel and Gideon were both chosen by G-d to perform a work for Him.
Ezekiel was shown an awesome vision of a valley of dry bones in which the Lord showed him the condition of the spiritual deadness of the Jewish people in his day.
He told Ezekiel to prophesy to the bones pray for them that they might live. (It concerned the THE SPIRITUAL DEATH AND RESURRECTION OF THE ISRAELITE NATION)
************************************************
God chose Gideon, a young man from an otherwise unremarkable clan from the tribe of Manasseh, to free the people of Israel and to condemn their worship of idols.
Very unsure of both himself and God's command, he requested proof of God's will by two miracles, performed on consecutive nights and the exact opposite of each other:
36Then Gideon said to God, "You say that you have decided to use me to rescue Israel. 37Well, I am putting some wool on the ground where we thresh the wheat. If in the morning there is dew only on the wool but not on the ground, then I will know that you are going to use me to rescue Israel."
38That is exactly what happened. When Gideon got up early the next morning, he squeezed the wool and wrung enough dew out of it to fill a bowl with water.
39Then Gideon said to God, "Don't be angry with me; let me speak just once more. Please let me make one more test with the wool. This time let the wool be dry, and the ground be wet."
40 That night God did that very thing. The next morning the wool was dry, but the ground was wet with dew. (Judges 6:36-40, Good News Bible)
His word was in my heart like a fire,
a fire shut up in my bones.
I was weary of holding it in
& indeed, I could not----Jeremiah 20:9
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The Lord is my Shepherd
a fire shut up in my bones.
I was weary of holding it in
& indeed, I could not----Jeremiah 20:9
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The Lord is my Shepherd
-
discerning
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Charys,....since I was observing and not taking part, I think it may be more than a personal dream.
You may well be correct here. I long subscribed to the theory that being an observer equated to the dream being more than personal..a theory which is, arguably, not without merit. However, there a veiled danger in this line of thinking of which we should be acutely aware...
...that being, that our [sinful] nature , being human, is quick to fast forward to the bigger picture and totally overlook the personal application. That being said, I believe this is first and foremost, a commissioning dream (which is not to say it doesn't have a larger application).
I believe you are on the right path here...
blessings,I'm trying to figure out what Gideon and Ezekiel had in common.
discerning
I have made you a watchman for the house of Israel; so hear the word I speak and give them warning...
Ezekiel 3:17
I have made you a watchman for the house of Israel; so hear the word I speak and give them warning...
Ezekiel 3:17
[quote="discerning
You may well be correct here. I long subscribed to the theory that being an observer equated to the dream being more than personal..a theory which is, arguably, not without merit. However, there a veiled danger in this line of thinking of which we should be acutely aware...
...that being, that our [sinful] nature , being human, is quick to fast forward to the bigger picture and totally overlook the personal application.
Thanks Discerning. That's a relief. (not the sinful nature part)
That being said, I believe this is first and foremost, a commissioning dream ...
Commissioning for whom I wonder?
[/quote]
You may well be correct here. I long subscribed to the theory that being an observer equated to the dream being more than personal..a theory which is, arguably, not without merit. However, there a veiled danger in this line of thinking of which we should be acutely aware...
...that being, that our [sinful] nature , being human, is quick to fast forward to the bigger picture and totally overlook the personal application.
Thanks Discerning. That's a relief. (not the sinful nature part)
That being said, I believe this is first and foremost, a commissioning dream ...
Commissioning for whom I wonder?
[/quote]
...that I might know Him...
Dear Charys and All:
At first glance of your dream, I thought there was a comparison to you and these 2 Bible characters.
Gideon is sort of a simple, humble man, but Ezekiel--that's a complex book (now you're way over my head!). Maybe it is not what is similar about these characters, but their diversity. I think you operate in both the very simple and complex, both large vision but also in detail. Most people do not have this kind of diversity at their personal disposal.
Charys quote: "Commissioning for whom I wonder?"
You are being facetious, aren't you?!
Peggy
What will we call you now--Gidekiel or Ezekeon?
Your dream from yesterday looks like a picture of deliverance--a little Moses and "The Ten Commandments."
Your dreams seem in the land of epic characters. If you're gonna dream, I guess don't dream small!
At first glance of your dream, I thought there was a comparison to you and these 2 Bible characters.
Gideon is sort of a simple, humble man, but Ezekiel--that's a complex book (now you're way over my head!). Maybe it is not what is similar about these characters, but their diversity. I think you operate in both the very simple and complex, both large vision but also in detail. Most people do not have this kind of diversity at their personal disposal.
Charys quote: "Commissioning for whom I wonder?"
You are being facetious, aren't you?!
Peggy
What will we call you now--Gidekiel or Ezekeon?
Your dream from yesterday looks like a picture of deliverance--a little Moses and "The Ten Commandments."
Your dreams seem in the land of epic characters. If you're gonna dream, I guess don't dream small!
No. I am not being facetious. I'm watching out for unlikely heroes I can support (from a bunker). In the dream I was observing the call of two men. I do not see myself in a leadership role -I provide prayer support for others. Even in the parting of the dirt dream I was not leading anyone.peggyo wrote:Dear Charys and All:
At first glance of your dream, I thought there was a comparison to you and these 2 Bible characters.
Charys quote: "Commissioning for whom I wonder?"
You are being facetious, aren't you?!
Peggy
I never considered that it might refer to me
and I'm afraid my first response to your interp. would be "Here am I; send him."...that I might know Him...
Would not call what I offered an interpretation, just some thoughts. We've talked about leadership before Charys! Leadership often has to do with spiritual maturity--who we are in Christ. You're definitely a leader in vision and ministry (TLC!) and prayer and prophetics and probably some practical things like cooking and humor and so many other things that it is hard to take in.
I remember you told that story once about an emergency situation and the one who had the "stuff"--the know how to fix or help the situation--was the one who was the leader. Even though no one had appointed them.
Who we are in the spirit is not always reflected by our station or positions/posts in this life. Some really key players never held an office. So no need to go off the deep end. Just change your vision about it a little--you know--we are seated in heavenly places. Your place is evidently a little powerful.
You're a senior now, all grown up, or you've become a little child again, whichever.
Take heart, no need for worry! You've got what it takes to really make things happen.
I don't think we should be worrying so much anyway about "whose in charge," cause God really is in charge, just lets us walk in his shoes with him some times, just that we make sure the battle is won. Most everyone gets a chance to lead at one time or another. Isaiah says "and a little child shall lead them." Don't shrink back now! Maybe it will be your only chance to really shine, who knows!
Lots of love!
Peggy
P.S. Okay, so what is your second response?
I remember you told that story once about an emergency situation and the one who had the "stuff"--the know how to fix or help the situation--was the one who was the leader. Even though no one had appointed them.
Who we are in the spirit is not always reflected by our station or positions/posts in this life. Some really key players never held an office. So no need to go off the deep end. Just change your vision about it a little--you know--we are seated in heavenly places. Your place is evidently a little powerful.
You're a senior now, all grown up, or you've become a little child again, whichever.
Take heart, no need for worry! You've got what it takes to really make things happen.
I don't think we should be worrying so much anyway about "whose in charge," cause God really is in charge, just lets us walk in his shoes with him some times, just that we make sure the battle is won. Most everyone gets a chance to lead at one time or another. Isaiah says "and a little child shall lead them." Don't shrink back now! Maybe it will be your only chance to really shine, who knows!
Lots of love!
Peggy
P.S. Okay, so what is your second response?
Dear Peggy,
No fair quoting a story I told. Aaargh. I was also just smacked upside the head (ever so lovingly) by re-reading the creative/reactive post that has my name on it. "how will we respond...."
I'm listening to the entire book of Ezekiel on the 'puter (thanks to Blue Letter Bible). There are some descriptions on there that certainly match my western culture -like the bit about the sin of sister Sodom. wow. I've been researching Ezekiel all day. One Jewish commentator called him the "prophet on steroids". I think he was the Vincent van Gogh of prophets -highly creative, but my, that boy was weeeeird. I know some strange performance artists, but laying on his side for 390 days and cooking bean bread over poop really wins the out-there prize.
That kind of obedience takes a lot of trust and lack of ego.
I'll get back to you about your question about my second response. I want to answer with a united heart.
Tomorrow I'll study Gideon.
Now back to Zeke.
btw -Charlie, ReBorn, Discerning, PeggyO, you all have a lot of wisdom. Thank you for sharing it. I appreciate you enormously.
No fair quoting a story I told. Aaargh. I was also just smacked upside the head (ever so lovingly) by re-reading the creative/reactive post that has my name on it. "how will we respond...."
I'm listening to the entire book of Ezekiel on the 'puter (thanks to Blue Letter Bible). There are some descriptions on there that certainly match my western culture -like the bit about the sin of sister Sodom. wow. I've been researching Ezekiel all day. One Jewish commentator called him the "prophet on steroids". I think he was the Vincent van Gogh of prophets -highly creative, but my, that boy was weeeeird. I know some strange performance artists, but laying on his side for 390 days and cooking bean bread over poop really wins the out-there prize.
That kind of obedience takes a lot of trust and lack of ego.
I'll get back to you about your question about my second response. I want to answer with a united heart.
Tomorrow I'll study Gideon.
Now back to Zeke.
btw -Charlie, ReBorn, Discerning, PeggyO, you all have a lot of wisdom. Thank you for sharing it. I appreciate you enormously.
...that I might know Him...
Thanks Charys. I just had a good couple-minute laugh--NONSTOP!!
Needed that! It's really late here in MN--must be the late-night giggles.
Sorry for the unfair story reminder, but I also struggle with an occasional divided heart that conveniently gets divided on the correct side when playing counselor with someone else's call of God. COMPLETELY understand! So you got just a little stage fright. What are friends for?!
No really, sometimes we just need a little nudge. But often times our imaginations take off with a dream like this, when great deeds are often done very simply or quietly in our prayer closets before God alone. It is our perceptions that desperately need arranging.
Honestly, I don't think you have anything to be afraid of.
If nothing else, our dreams cause us to do some searching, digging and learning that we might not otherwise get to, and you are good at researching, I've noticed. You seem to enjoy it.
I'll have to take a look at the creative-reactive post again.
Sleep on it and things might look better in the morning~
The Lord bless your dreams.
Needed that! It's really late here in MN--must be the late-night giggles.
Sorry for the unfair story reminder, but I also struggle with an occasional divided heart that conveniently gets divided on the correct side when playing counselor with someone else's call of God. COMPLETELY understand! So you got just a little stage fright. What are friends for?!
No really, sometimes we just need a little nudge. But often times our imaginations take off with a dream like this, when great deeds are often done very simply or quietly in our prayer closets before God alone. It is our perceptions that desperately need arranging.
Honestly, I don't think you have anything to be afraid of.
If nothing else, our dreams cause us to do some searching, digging and learning that we might not otherwise get to, and you are good at researching, I've noticed. You seem to enjoy it.
I'll have to take a look at the creative-reactive post again.
Sleep on it and things might look better in the morning~
The Lord bless your dreams.
Charys... yes unlikely hero's and all are the stuff of inspiration for those of us who aren't seemingly in positions of influence/leadership etc etc. but the context of WAR in both the narratives of which these biblical characters speak is centrally and unequivocally the focus here...and obedience and repentance is their message to God's people.
The consequence of INFIDELITY And FICKLENESS of God's people (then the OT kingdoms of Israel and now the people of God) had very real consequences then as now....other POWERS gained in power over their lives (be it Midianites or the warriors of Gog and Magog). Then as now, God's people (or those who call themselves by His name) have shamelessly given way to immorality, flirting with hedonism and materialism and other gods which demand their/our homage. They failed to care adequately for the orphan and the widow and generally let God down rather badly and in doing so failed to carry our kingdom and covenanted commissioning on earth (as it is in heaven).
BOTH gideon and ezekiel had significant roles to play in calling the apostates back to repentance...to remember how far they had fallen and to return to their first love (letters to the churches in revelation show us this cycle goes on into the early church...the prophet continues to call the people of God back to true faith based on obedience and love and away from the apostasy of Mammon.).
The biblical narratives are clear in delineating the cause of the oppression (the covenanted people of God's disobedience, idolatrous hedonism and unjust living) and that repentance (by those who call themselves by God's name) is required, along with a battle to exorcise the POWERS which have driven them/us out of our peaceful abode and union with Abba.
Central for both these men is the urgent task for the people of God to clean up their act and clean house THEN they can expect God's hand to move on their behalf...BUT make no mistake, they are already in a pickle as they have let the POWERS in in the first place so they are going to have to be renewed in mind and spirit (healed of ungodly fear in the case of gideon and his men) before they can do battle to regain lost ground.
So in a rather brutally magnified way the message to the people of GOd is "take the log out of your own eye then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brothers"....
grace to all who seek Him
charlie
The consequence of INFIDELITY And FICKLENESS of God's people (then the OT kingdoms of Israel and now the people of God) had very real consequences then as now....other POWERS gained in power over their lives (be it Midianites or the warriors of Gog and Magog). Then as now, God's people (or those who call themselves by His name) have shamelessly given way to immorality, flirting with hedonism and materialism and other gods which demand their/our homage. They failed to care adequately for the orphan and the widow and generally let God down rather badly and in doing so failed to carry our kingdom and covenanted commissioning on earth (as it is in heaven).
BOTH gideon and ezekiel had significant roles to play in calling the apostates back to repentance...to remember how far they had fallen and to return to their first love (letters to the churches in revelation show us this cycle goes on into the early church...the prophet continues to call the people of God back to true faith based on obedience and love and away from the apostasy of Mammon.).
The biblical narratives are clear in delineating the cause of the oppression (the covenanted people of God's disobedience, idolatrous hedonism and unjust living) and that repentance (by those who call themselves by God's name) is required, along with a battle to exorcise the POWERS which have driven them/us out of our peaceful abode and union with Abba.
Central for both these men is the urgent task for the people of God to clean up their act and clean house THEN they can expect God's hand to move on their behalf...BUT make no mistake, they are already in a pickle as they have let the POWERS in in the first place so they are going to have to be renewed in mind and spirit (healed of ungodly fear in the case of gideon and his men) before they can do battle to regain lost ground.
So in a rather brutally magnified way the message to the people of GOd is "take the log out of your own eye then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brothers"....
grace to all who seek Him
charlie
Charlie
Jesus said: I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Therefore, whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 18:3
Jesus said: I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Therefore, whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 18:3
charlie wrote:Charys...
but the context of WAR in both the narratives of which these biblical characters speak is centrally and unequivocally the focus here...and obedience and repentance is their message to God's people.
Then as now, God's people (or those who call themselves by His name) have shamelessly given way to immorality, flirting with hedonism and materialism and other gods which demand their/our homage. They failed to care adequately for the orphan and the widow and generally let God down rather badly and in doing so failed to carry our kingdom and covenanted commissioning on earth (as it is in heaven).
BOTH gideon and ezekiel had significant roles to play in calling the apostates back to repentance...to remember how far they had fallen and to return to their first love (letters to the churches in revelation show us this cycle goes on into the early church...the prophet continues to call the people of God back to true faith based on obedience and love and away from the apostasy of Mammon.).
The biblical narratives are clear in delineating the cause of the oppression (the covenanted people of God's disobedience, idolatrous hedonism and unjust living) and that repentance (by those who call themselves by God's name) is required, along with a battle to exorcise the POWERS which have driven them/us out of our peaceful abode and union with Abba.
Central for both these men is the urgent task for the people of God to clean up their act and clean house THEN they can expect God's hand to move on their behalf...BUT make no mistake, they are already in a pickle as they have let the POWERS in in the first place so they are going to have to be renewed in mind and spirit (healed of ungodly fear in the case of gideon and his men) before they can do battle to regain lost ground.
So in a rather brutally magnified way the message to the people of GOd is "take the log out of your own eye then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brothers"....
grace to all who seek Him
charlie
Charlie, you are an instrument of God here. And this instrument is like a trumpet blast from Mt. Sinai. It's very scary. It scares the pants off me really --in the sense that it exposes more of my shame than I would wish to have exposed. So here I stand with all my foibles hanging out.
And just like the Children of Israel my first response has been to go to the written word and say, "I'll get back to you." Just like them I find it easier to do research because it is easier than responding with an immediate "Yes" to the spoken word and the reality of having a close-up relationship with a God who requires purity and holiness.
It's so easy to see what's wrong with "them." It's so easy to deliver a message, but He asked Gideon and Ezekiel to BE the message.
It's like the farm animals who decided to make breakfast for the farmer. It's easier to be the chicken who donates the eggs than the pig who donates the bacon; for him it's a total committment.
Peggy, I want to get all theoretical and approach this from an intellectual point of view. You're right; I like research. I want to study and research and understand all the eternal ramifications first. I want a job description and labour agreement first, before I answer the question --but that's one of the logs in my own eye, isn't it?
hmmmmmmmmmmmmm
So Lord... Yes. (Just let me know this is You and not my imagination getting away with me.)
...that I might know Him...
Just like Jesus being the sacrificial Lamb, huh?It's so easy to see what's wrong with "them." It's so easy to deliver a message, but He asked Gideon and Ezekiel to BE the message.
It's like the farm animals who decided to make breakfast for the farmer. It's easier to be the chicken who donates the eggs than the pig who donates the bacon; for him it's a total committment.
His word was in my heart like a fire,
a fire shut up in my bones.
I was weary of holding it in
& indeed, I could not----Jeremiah 20:9
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The Lord is my Shepherd
a fire shut up in my bones.
I was weary of holding it in
& indeed, I could not----Jeremiah 20:9
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The Lord is my Shepherd
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