"Quit thinking in two dimensions"

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Charys
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"Quit thinking in two dimensions"

Post by Charys »

In this dream someone was helping me put a puzzle together. He was serious, but very kind. The puzzle was made of interlocking metal pieces and each one had a different trick for the way it would hook into another. I thought we were done when we had a kind of mat made. Then he started building upwards until the puzzle became like a three foot cube. I remember a huge sense of satisfaction when it all came together, although the person with me did most of it. Then he said to me something like, "Quit thinking in two dimensions."

This was an extremely difficult multi-factorial puzzle. I don't usually have the patience to put three of those pieces together, but there was such a sense of joy in accomplishing this thing with him that it made the task feel worthwhile.

Context: I have been struggling with trying to understand behaviour and how people change.

I keep hearing "the renewing of the mind, the renewing of the mind..."

I don't understand. Each one seems to take their theory and run with it. I don't know how to fit it all together -or if it fits together. I was praying about all this yesterday and I think the dream is in reference to this problem.

Edited to take out the bits that could start an unpleasant argument. My apologies.
Last edited by Charys on Mon Oct 25, 2010 5:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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anyamanee

Post by anyamanee »

it's both and. you focus on the human-psychology aspect and YES we have problems b/c of sin nature.
but demons etc also play a part.
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Charys
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Post by Charys »

Thank you, Anyamanee. Yes. I know it's both, but how do they fit together -and how do I avoid the slippery slope of getting off balance? It seems to me we either ignore the demonic activity part or we become so aware of demons under -and on and around every head of a pin that we take our eyes off Jesus. I don't want to start another endless debate on if a Christian can be possessed, oppressed, harassed or what the technical term is. We've seen that discussion produce more heat than light more than once.

I wonder what are the other dimension (or dimensions) is/are because I already accept the need for battling dark forces on a supernatural level. I'm missing something here.
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Grace
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Post by Grace »

I believe we need to stay rooted in the Word of God. When we read the word, yes Jesus casts out demons, but there is a lot of focus on the heart and mind as well. We are all responsible before God for our actions. We are given gifts, talents in which we are called to develop. The Bible has so many topics and those who are two dimensional have not studied it in depth. Satan is the one who motivates us with fear. If he can drive us to far to the 'spiritualize everything' mode or to far to the'intellectualize' mode he wins. However, we are to be in the radical middle in this case. We are to apply our mind but see with our spirit as well. I hope I made sense.
Be strong and courageous. Do not be afraid or terrified because of them, for the LORD your God goes with you; he will never leave you nor forsake you."Deut 31:6
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jackiebauerle
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Post by jackiebauerle »

The scripture that came to my mind when I read your post was

Romans 8:39

nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

The full dimension of Christ is the fullness of his love!! Anything short of that is seeing only in 2 dimension. As a disciple of Christ, we are to veiw others through his fullness of His love. It is only then that the Fruit of the Spirit will be visiable in our lives.

Remember, Christ came not to condemn the world but to save it. That same Christ is in us...not to condemn the world but to save it.

Christ walked as an example, so are we teachers of the truth by example. I personally love it when the Holy Spirit reminds me of renewing my mind to think beyond two dimensional.

May the Lord bless your desire to serve him at a greater level.
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Taps
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Post by Taps »

I believe I may have some insight for ya Charys...

I write about this in my book.

The realm of the enemy is a spiritual dimension. And if we consider that we've been created Body, Soul, Spirit, let's just agree, for arguments sake as it relates to this dream... that the Body and Soul are two of the dimensions mentioned. This being "the two dimensions you are thinking in."
The Natural... (body) the Spiritual (soul)
The enemy... affects the realm of the Natural as it concerns our flesh...
And he also interferes at the Spiritual level so as to bring confusion. This is the first and second heaven.
This spiritual level is where people, who are accessing the spiritual realm, often hover or access.

But... there is another dimension... that we do not consider really. One we have defined as spiritual but is much higher.. much more than just that.
It is the Level of the Divine. The One that God reigns in and rules the heavenly realm from ... and the one that we are seated in with Christ... high above all principalities, powers, etc etc...

At this level... if we choose to operate from this realm, there is no contest. We have already won hands down... and it is just a matter of enforcing it in the lower realms... or on the lower levels. In this way.. we bring the dominion of Heaven... to Earth.

So... people are often stuck thinking is just two dimensions... and this is often why they have little sustained success in holding ground or taking ground.

I find that people dealing with psychology of The Mind... can limit themselves to the lower realms. Because often they are trying to reach for reasoning apart from God's Truth. I find people who follow New Age teachings limit themselves to the lower levels also.
I am watching a friend of mine go through some extensive psychological "healing" (he is military) and I found I had to reach out to offer some help because I could see that the doctors weren't able to do anything other than sort of put in temporary walls (in his mind) to stay the mental torment he was suffering.
Apart from Jesus, there is no permanent solution. And He is at the level of the Divine. If we are not accessing that dimension, we are subject to the environment we are in and all the perils of that dimension. If we live at the highest level... the level of the Divine... then everything is subject to us when we bring it into Divine Order according to the pattern of heaven through the Power of Holy Spirit because of our relationship with Jesus (the Living Word) to reveal the heart of Father.

Does that help?
Cheers... Taps
Last edited by Taps on Tue Oct 26, 2010 3:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Charys
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Post by Charys »

Thanks Taps,
So you are saying body and soul equal first and second dimensions, spiritual equals third dimension or the second heaven where the enemy can bring confusion, and the Divine equals the third heaven and the fourth dimension?

Do people who think in three dimensions also have little sustained success in holding or taking ground?

Can you point me to some scripture to follow up on? Is this like Esther in Ephesians, about knowing your new identity and position?

*Working on the premise there are no dumb questions* --if you don't mind.
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Post by chrisy »

I thought that I would add to your post since I am trying to be "holy as my Father in Heaven is holy" - to please Him.

I agree with Taps where he/she states:
"The Natural... the Spirital
The enemy... affects the realm of the Natural as it concerns our flesh...
And he also interferes at the Spiritual level so as to bring confusion."
But it is just not the enemy - but we ourselves. We live in the flesh in which sin is inherent. We in our flesh are at enmity with God. Our flesh - not just Satan, "pulls" us to sin.

It goes even further - when we are "saved" and the Holy Spirit comes and lives within us - the Lord, through the Holy Spirit, begins working quietly within us to conform us to the image of Jesus Christ. Our desires begin to change.. we desire to do the things that please God...

however,

Our minds still belong to the "old man" therefore we HAVE to renew our minds - we have to bring our thoughts in line with the working of the Holy Spirit. We have to "arrest" those thoughts and bring them in accordance with the will of God.

The "deliverance ministry" can be used as an excuse to abdicate our responsibility as followers of Jesus Christ. One cannot be "delivered" from evil spirits if one is baptized with the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit and "other evil spirits" cannot live in the same body at the same time.

When one is baptized with the Holy Spirit - one has to renew one's mind in order to be LED by the Holy Spirit.When one is "not saved", one's perception of life is shaped by the values of the world system. However, when the Lord calls and one answers, one's thought process has to change, e.g., when I was not saved (the old man), I thought that it was OK to be intimate with the person whom I was dating. Now that I am saved, I see that act as sinful and unacceptable to me. My view of dating changed. I started to analyze my thoughts and bring them in accordance with godly principles. Integral to the renewing of the mind is the requirement that I feed on His Word to "wash" my "old man's" thoughts - the renewing of the mind.

This is an ongoing process - it's not one thing but all working together for our good. It's one process - the Holy Spirit working within us, we actively renewing our minds, and being led by the Spirit of God.... but we live in the sinful flesh and the Devil is ever trying to seduce us to sin - so we fight, and fight...

....wearing the whole armor of God... as the Holy Spirit continually works within us, as we renew our minds... preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom of God... holding on... enduring to the end... finishing the race.

It's complex but with our Lord in control - it will be done.
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Charys
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Post by Charys »

Thank you so much Chrisy. The renewing of the mind -yes. Holiness -yes. The Holy Spirit working within us -yes. Wearing the armour of God -yes.

Can I just say at this point that there is more than one opinion about deliverance and the Christian -and it is a discussion that has taken off -and like I said, caused more heat than light on the board in the past. You are probably not aware of this. I hesitated to post this dream just for that reason. It's one of those trigger issues that brings out a lot of strong feelings and opinions. This is something I am asking posters to steer away from because it does tend to take off and leave other questions in the dust-up.

Goodness, what if the first thread I had to lock as a new moderator was my own? :oops: ooooops

Let's just agree that we are in a battle beyond the physical world and that the enemy is still a pain in the buttinski, OK?

It's an extremely difficult multi-factorial puzzle.

So --- my question is about thinking in more than two dimensions.
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Charys
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Post by Charys »

Thank you Grace and Jackie. You are all giving me things to ponder.
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Post by shine »

Charys! Awesome dream! This coming from someone that even just looking at puzzles makes my head hurt!

"Renewing the Mind" - So that is the focal point of your dream.
To see the different levels in more discernment!

Love this thread and ea of the posters - Praise God!

Taps wrote:At this level... if we choose to operate from this realm, there is no contest. We have already won hands down... and it is just a matter of enforcing it in the lower realms... or on the lower levels. In this way.. we bring the dominion of Heaven... to Earth.
Keep on Tapping :D

Taps wrote: I am watching a friend of mine go through some extensive psychological "healing" (he is military) and I found I had to reach out to offer some help because I could see that the doctors weren't able to do anything other than sort of put in temporary walls (in his mind) to stay the mental torment he was suffering.
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Taps
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Post by Taps »

Charys wrote:Thanks Taps,
So you are saying body and soul equal first and second dimensions, spiritual equals third dimension or the second heaven where the enemy can bring confusion, and the Divine equals the third heaven and the fourth dimension?
No I am not saying what is marked in bold. I'll try to explain below.
Do people who think in three dimensions also have little sustained success in holding or taking ground?
Yes... they can because they may be trying to take ground from the enemy where that ground still exists in them. We can apply the righteousness of Jesus and His victory through the atonement and resurrection we are part of... but if we continually self-indulge in any area we are trying to take ground we have no authority to command alignment according to the pattern of heaven. We kind of break the access of power from the heavenly to the earthly realm.
Can you point me to some scripture to follow up on? Is this like Esther in Ephesians, about knowing your new identity and position?

*Working on the premise there are no dumb questions* --if you don't mind.
I am not at home right now but I can offer a quick reply until I can be a bit more thorough with the last thing you asked me for.

The spiritual dimension isn't the 3rd level. The spiritual dimension is the second level or the second heaven. This is where all the outside "faiths" operate. Like Muslim, Buddhists, New Age, Bahai etc etc. They are reaching outside the natural level of the physical and they have stepped into the dimension of the spirit in their reach for answers.

The lower level of the physical is the level of NEED. We most often operate out of physical need. And at times perhaps we reach into the Spiritual dimension looking for a response to our need. At the spirit level we can find God. God can and does meet us there. (This is not an optimum environment but it is a working environment to begin at). Some faiths or cults reach into this realm for its intellectual properties. Illumination. Enlightement. Energy.
The enemy also operates in spiritual realm of the second level or realm. Soul, mind, will, and emotions. The enemy often interferes at this level/dimension though.

The 2nd level doesn't mean Divine just because it is spiritual.
God ministers in all three dimensions...body, soul, spirit. (and there are many more than just three) The enemy will elevate the soul to the level of the spiritual realm (making you think you're reaching higher) then pull it down into the flesh so that you are satisfied with much less thereby becoming distracted from further seeking God.

This satisfaction will only be a temporary fix. It won't last. The flesh will grow hungry and thirsty again and the soul restless and the cycle begins all over again.
Thinking outside two dimensions is how we can break the cycle.

Okay... that's all I have time for right now until I get home Charys.
I hope this clarifies some things. Continue to ask away if I have just muddied the waters further.

Cheers Friend.
Taps
Last edited by Taps on Tue Oct 26, 2010 3:33 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Post by piano »

Hi Charys,
It is the Level of the Divine. The One that God reigns in and rules the heavenly realm from ... and the one that we are seated in with Christ... high above all principalities, powers, etc etc...

At this level... if we choose to operate from this realm, there is no contest.
No form of godliness that denies Him will ever be The Divine!

Praise His Holy Name...

Piano
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness; but is long-suffering toward us, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
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Post by Taps »

Divine Truth.
That is the only way to access FREEDOM.

Renewing the Mind... yes... but the way they do it will not hold.
Because their logic can be endlessly argued in their mind... as it remains only human reasoning. If they feel it is inspired... then who inspired it?
Divine Truth... scales above the arguments and the lies.

You can't defeat a lie with another 'lie'. And if it is not Divine Truth... then what are you believing...? perhaps experience to support what you believe that might not necessarily be there to support Truth but a lie that robs you of Freedoms?

I had a dream a number of years ago... and in it the lies were like strings... lines... kinda like a web and I was starting to get a little tangled up in it. I was trying to break them. But I couldn't. I was given a pair of scissors finally. And with the scissors, I cut them loose quite easily.
Father said that thoughts that invade our psyche, our mind, cannot be defeated by simply thinking or believing another thought that we believe to be 'more true'. A thought... cannot defeat or tear down or cut through another thought. Only Truth can remove a lie. Divine Truth. This is what the scissors were.

My friend. The doctors are rescripting his dreams. Telling him what he sees and feels is not really what is happening. They change the hostile images to friendly images and then 'program' him to believe a new 'script' concerning what they are doing in the dream.
This won't hold. Because what those images in his dreams mean need to be carefully dealt with, not ignored. They tell him they're 'putting them in a contained area... like a box' and they will deal with them later. We know the enemy won't allow him to enjoy this peace for long.
So I pray for him.

okay... scripture... temptations of Jesus Christ is one area you can see this. And then when He sends out His disciples (12) and then the 70.
They have to have authority greater than that of satan's domain to be able to displace him. I guess you can see it many places as it really is a spiritual principal. When Daniel prayed... and the angels dispatched from heaven had to pass through the lower realms and were detained.
There are more I'm sure that could be pointed out. But that's off the top of my head.

Cheerio Charys...
Taps
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Post by imavessel »

I thought of the scripture that His ways are not our ways . . . His ways being so much higher . . .

Not sure we will ever have the answers that we are curious about.

If we do, it will be when we are with Him, and then frankly, it will no longer matter.

But the urge to decipher and understand, learn---are probably all things He put in you . . .

Perhaps a suggestion to "think outside of the boxes you might be prone to . . . "

Maybe in everything there is far more than the eye can see.

More depth to the things we already "think" we understand . . . more than what's on the surface---------------

Or the mat--- when you thought you were done. & He said, "No- there's more", and He continued to build.
God isn't looking for perfect vessels, simply willing ones . . . :)
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