"Quit thinking in two dimensions"

[Charys]

The first verse of a song based on Psalm 91 kept running through my head all night. hmmm.....it's still there.

He who dwells in the secret place of the Most High will abide in the shadow of the Almighty.

I will say of the Lord, he is my refuge and my fortress, my God in whom I trust. For he will deliver you from the snare of the fowler and from the deadly pestilence. He will cover you with his feathers and there you will find rest.

Last year Graham Cooke was speaking in a little church in our neighbourhood of all places, so I went to listen. I remember he told a story of having a dream/vision in which he and some others were exhausted fighting hand to hand combat in a war with serious scary opposition. As he was standing there with his sword assessing the situation an angel came up to him dressed as a waiter and asked, "Sir, would you prefer the ice cream or melon for dessert?" He thought that was absolutely crazy under the circumstances, but the waiter persisted in asking the question in spite of Graham's protests. He finally caught on that the Christian must battle from a position of rest and joy in the Lord and His provisions.

It's starting to come together. This morning I heard "Ravenna". Huh? Then I remembered that Ravenna is famous for its mosaics -- gorgeous art works made of many broken pieces of ceramic fitted together.


edited to remove a youtube link to Ravenna I added without listening to the words of the music it included first. :roll:

[shine]

I've been wanting to post this. . .my husband & I had a great bible/study & discussion - which some of it I thought to put on this thread.

In 2nd Corinithians Ch 11, Paul sets up a counter arguement against false apostles.
then into ch 12 - which is written around 50-60 yrs AD. . .Revelations not written yet.
He speaks of boasting.
I will not boast of myself;
but I will boast of this other person (prob. John) - who was caught up into paradise. . .

So consider this:
Paradise -- 1st heaven
Where the martyrs are - glass ceiling -- 2nd heaven
Where God is on his throne -- 3rd heaven

btw - my husband believes (& is very studious in the bible) that there are 8 dimensions.

Just thought to add to this thread of your Charys - and give some things to consider (if you haven't already)
Blessings, Shine

Oh & I made a notation. . .In 2nd Peter, Peter vouches for Paul saying he can write Scripture.

[Taps]

Just a quick comment...
Scientists have been mentioning for awhile now that there are 11 or more dimensions.
I like the number 11.

I had an interesting dream there this am.
it was unusual...like putting God in a box. (when most the time we are trying to get Him out of the boxes we put Him in)

for example: a light is bright and can light up an area... but put that light in a projector and shine it on to a movie screen and you've just increased the capacity of how far the light can project.
It was this kind of image that this illustration above was trying to convey. It had a greater magnification ability somehow.
Reminds me of our dimension talk here... so I thought I would share it.

Cheers... Taps

[chrisy]

Shine,

Wasn't Paul speaking of himself as the one who was caught up to the third heaven?

BTW, how extremely awesome is our omnipotent Lord!!! Oh, the mysteries of His ways!!!

[Charys]

Chrisy, Paul never actually says who it was. It must be one of those revealed-on-a-need-to-know-basis things.

Taps, I checked with my husband and he says that M theory (formerly known as string theory) does indeed propose 11 dimensions. He started to explain it to me but he must have noticed my eyes glazing over so he stopped. (Have you ever seen the tv show "Big Bang Theory" about four physicists and the girl across the hall? We get such as kick out of it because we know all those guys. We are what Leonard and Penny would look like if they got saved and had been married for 38 years. It's been an interesting ride -and the amazing thing is, we're both alive to tell about it.)

So I will use the excuse that I am not a linear thinker to throw this interesting bit out there. One night I heard, "God's love is like a laser. When unrequited love returns to him the beam just gets stronger."

I never told my husband before because I didn't want to look dumb cause I thought of Star Wars light swords or something. So I asked the man just now and he said that's how a laser works. The beam reflects back and forth an infinite number of times inside the laser-producing box gizmo thingy and each time it does it is amplified. What escapes out the little hole on the end is part of what results from the interaction of light going out and being returned and going out even stronger. That's what laser means Light Amplification by the Stimulation of Emitted Radiation. He thought that revelation was really cool because God's love is a laser could mean Love Amplification by the Stimulation of Emitted Radiation.

Maybe that was what your putting God in a box dream was about.

Cool.

[ditte3]

Hi Charys

Peace be with you.

What a wonderful dream.

These are just my first thoughts:

I think the Holy Spirit wants to show you something.

My very firtst thought was when I read."Quit thinking in two dimensions" that the word of God is not just two dimensional,not just ink on paper,but it has the Power of God in it,
We all know it,yet maybe we do not use the word of God enough,to work God's work.

The word of God when spoken,it creates.

"For as the rain cometh down,and the snow from heaven,and returneth not thither,but watereth the earth,and maketh it bring forth and bud,that it may give seed to the sower,and bread to the eater:So shall my word be that goeth froth out of my mouth:it shall not return unto me void,but it shall accomplish that which I please,and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it."(Isaiah 55,10-11.)

Also Proverbs 12,13.;Proverbs 18,20.;Proverbs18,21.

God wants us to work His work,say His word.when we say his word it goes out to this world and into the invisible world and does what God wants.

If these are not what the Lord tells you,please toss them.

God bless you.

[charlie]

Context: I have been struggling with trying to understand behaviour and how people change.

I keep hearing "the renewing of the mind, the renewing of the mind..."

Charys...it is interesting isn't it how we are in a time where 3D is becoming increasingly the mode ...3D cinema, 3D computer...even in academic circles alongside more linear modes of reasoning there are inter-penetrating models and frameworks which have a much more 3D feel to them!

When it comes to human behaviour- wow! Your dream reminded me of the verses which precede those already posted:

Isaiah 55: 6-9

Seek the LORD while he may be found;
call on him while he is near.
7Let the wicked forsake his way
and the evil man his thoughts.
Let him turn to the LORD, and he will have mercy on him,
and to our God, for he will freely pardon.
8“For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,”
declares the LORD.
9“As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts.

We can think in terms of spiritual, physical and psychological, environmental, social etc etc till the cows come home... but working out which factors from each of these dimensions are inter penetrating and causing "blockages" or problems is another matter...it seems that revelation through prayer or teaching sometimes leads to re-connecting the broken links but many ministries are seeing that a change of life/way of living which is ultimately life sustaining (as Abba intended) is necessary to "keep" the healing that healing revelation/counselling/prayer/teaching brings.

What I have come to see is that in the west generally (and some parts more so than others) we have developed a civilisation which is beginning to produce more problems... socially, environmentally...oh at so many levels.... and as revelation pronounces..."who can stand against the beast?" ...yet we know as Christians that Abba has provided a way to resist the "beast" and its destructive effects on our lives (at so many levels)...many of us remain mesmerised by the "beast" and forget that we can live in freedom and a well-being that does not belong to the dimension of the "beast's" control...this opting out of the kosmos dis-community and opting in to the kingdom community Jesus proclaimed and inaugurated is for me the dimension which is often missing...the paradigm shift which for some reason does not seem to have happened in large swathes of the church...and this requires indeed a renewing of the mind...in all dimensions!

grace to those who seek Him
charlie

[Charys]

Wow. You guys are deep.

...and wide...

...and high...

It is a complex multi-factorial puzzle requiring the Holy Spirt to sit on the floor beside us to show us how to connect all the links. Interesting. In the dream when I thought I had got it together enough to form a mat -something to stand on, (I'm thinking now maybe systematic theology or foundational teaching?) he started building upward.

You have all brought more pieces to this puzzle. Keep 'em coming.

[Taps]

Charys:

The foundational teachings that are being laid at this time that God will build upon have to do with:

* Apostolic foundations for building a relational church - instead of the current pastoral leadership of an institutional organization
* 7 Mountain Strategy - Raising up Marketplace Leaders who will shape these cultures and influence, govern and serve, using Kingdom principles that reveal the glory of God in their midst.
* Sonship - therefore.. Sons and Fathering - in lieu of the current mentoring method being applied
* Establishing a Kingdom on earth that reflects a heavenly pattern and government
So...as Father's and Sons (non-gender) - under Apostolic leadership and upon apostolic foundations, we establish dominion - by the Power of the Holy Spirit, Spirit and Truth, Jesus' Resurrection Life - that reveals the heart of the Father and establishes a Kingdom that resembles heaven so that eventually a Bride - and a Bridegroom may rule when everything is firmly under His feet.

These are the ones that I know and am part of.
That is very cool that your husband knows about string theory. I haven't seen that show...mostly because I don't watch TV at all. I have to really focus when I study quantum physics... or my eyes start to glaze over too...
One small illustration I saw (and there are many examples really of this same thing) is this drawing of a cube on all sides. Depending on how you looked at it, you could look down into it... or deep into it. You couldn't see both at the same time... it was either / or...BUT... they were both there in the same illustration. You just had to adjust your vision.
I think this is where one person can get caught saying it's black and the other white... and yet both are true.

Thanks for sharing your Laser understanding. Yes.. very very cool!!!!
Wonderful in fact!!! The dream was a house... with the 'lid' off. And the windows offered transparency of course. And whatever you put in the house...even though it was small and didn't fill the house... seemed to amplify like we've described with the light. So.. there was LOTS of room for Lots of GOD because it seemed it was Him we were putting in the house.

Luv n blessing Friend. Say hi to Hubby. His insight is very appreciated.
I have learned something from him.
Cheers.. Taps

[Charys]

Yeah, he knows about string theory. He's been a physics prof. for years. He worked with some of the first lasers ever made --and a whole bunch of other stuff.
Re: relational church. Someone sent hubs a proposal this week on how to evaluate how well a church is doing based on criteria such as sound theology, good preaching, membership, conversion rate and strong leadership. He wrote back: "It's about fellowship --not followship!"

I like this guy.

[Charys]

There was another part to the laser vision and it is this: God's love is powerful and pure and burns like a laser. When his love purifies it cuts deep, but it is very precise -as long as we are still and allow him to work.

The pain we experience is from resisting his love and trying to move away.

1 Peter 5:6 Humble yourselves, therefore, under God's mighty hand, that he may lift you up in due time.

[shine]

Charys. . .to use a play on your name,
I cherish how you think & write - which comes from your dreams & meditations.

I had to come back to this thread & read again!
Also, to comment (for your consideration again), after reading about the string theory on this thread I went back to hubby (cuz it seemed like a few years ago when that theory 1st came about).
Anyways as conversation ensued he informed me that "No" he had not meant that there are only 8 dimensions. . .apparently where I got the 8 from was when he had been mentioning about the Lamb in Revelations (Jesus) - about the 7 eyes.

He said just as we need 2 eyes to see in 3 dimension, (& apparently this thought has come to him before - as he is thinking on the significance of the 7 eyes) that we need 7 eyes to see in 8 dimensions.
Then he aspounded on all the 7's in the bible etc.

I was telling a friend the other day, that like in the school books where you see the body, and turn the clear plastic pages over, with turning each page, you see the nervous system, the skeletal system, the organs etc. . .well that is how my husband sees the bible. He can juggle a huge amt of info- and know how it fits together.

Oh, since your dh is a phy. prof. . . He probably knows of the athiest physisist who mathmatically prooved for 10 dimensions. . .I believe my dh said his name is Hawkins.

Anyways, please continue to add to this thread as the Lord reveals!

[Taps]

There was another part to the laser vision and it is this: God's love is powerful and pure and burns like a laser. When his love purifies it cuts deep, but it is very precise -as long as we are still and allow him to work.

The pain we experience is from resisting his love and trying to move away.

I saw something similar many years ago. On an alter... with the Lord holding a sword over my heart (and the hearts of All who would surrender their bodies as a living sacrifice to His Word)
If they turned away when He brought the sword down...and he held your gaze in the process... they would be painfully wounded instead of purified in the process. Interesting eh...? How He teaches us the same thing.

that we need 7 eyes to see in 8 dimensions.

That makes sense. Dunno about just the 8 dimensions. I think you need many eyes to see in many dimensions period. Remember the vision of Ezekiel "full of eyes round about them." and "full of eyes within" in Revelation.
I was given a vision of having many many eyes... round about me. So these are for the purpose of seeing multi-dimensionally as God sees. Cool!!
A thought also comes to me.... eyes, eyes, eyes, we all see differently... and yet when we share... we see more of a complete..."Puzzle" than if we didn't share our perspective on the mountain we stand on of the landscape below. Our Mountain... is our position in the spirit realm. It's kinda like those photomosaic images. The higher you go... the clearer you can see what the image looks like... not just a piece of it.

I like this thread. !!!
Cheers... Taps

[Charys]

There was another part to the laser vision and it is this: God's love is powerful and pure and burns like a laser. When his love purifies it cuts deep, but it is very precise -as long as we are still and allow him to work.

The pain we experience is from resisting his love and trying to move away.

I saw something similar many years ago. On an alter... with the Lord holding a sword over my heart (and the hearts of All who would surrender their bodies as a living sacrifice to His Word)
If they turned away when He brought the sword down...and he held your gaze in the process... they would be painfully wounded instead of purified in the process. Interesting eh...? How He teaches us the same thing.



A thought also comes to me.... eyes, eyes, eyes, we all see differently... and yet when we share... we see more of a complete..."Puzzle" than if we didn't share our perspective on the mountain we stand on of the landscape below. Our Mountain... is our position in the spirit realm. It's kinda like those photomosaic images. The higher you go... the clearer you can see what the image looks like... not just a piece of it.

I like this thread. !!!
Cheers... Taps

This could be horribly misunderstood by anyone who still has God confused with authority figures who misused their power. For anyone who was abused and told "This is love," a statement like this and the implication that God's love will hurt you if you don't lie still is painful beyond measure.

That's where I was for many, many years. If anyone else is in the place of disappointment with God and fear that getting close to Him means more hurt, let me assure you that God is not like the ones who hurt you before. God is holy and completely different from any humans who needed to exercise control over you to feel good about themselves. Healing comes in many ways; for some it's an instantaneous moment when Abba reaches in and pulls out the old pain. For many it is a process of little steps of trust. He is patience. Fifteen years ago I could never have written this with any degree of integrity: GOD IS GOOD!

In spite of what my brain said, I felt God was just using me to reach people who were more important and he would throw me away like a used tissue when he was done. I felt he was always disappointed in me. I feared that on the day of judgment there would be some tiny requirement that I had overlooked that would disqualify me. I believed that God teaches us only through suffering and since I was so bad, I needed to suffer a lot. I thought I was sick all the time because I deserved to be. I even took pride in it, because I assumed it was a sign that God was paying attention to me (and only a child who has willingly submitted to the wrong kind of attention can understand the perverted satisfaction in that). I felt God was like them.

Nuh uh. The point of my existence is not to be used for God's selfish purposes; it is to have a loving, close relationship with someone who loved me so much he would rather die than be without me (so he did -and rose again so to give me the opportunity to come back willingly.) Psalm 149 says he delights in me -he actually likes me and wants to spend time with me. I had no idea!! The only requirement is to keep my eyes on him so I don't get overwhelmed with the stormy seas of my own failures again. He healed me although I didn't deserve it because he loves me. He teaches me as I listen, but he will grab my wrist if I dart out into traffic. If I pull against him I am the one who is causing the pain, but his love will allow it because he doesn't want me to get hurt even worse. The purpose of his laser is to remove the splinter in my heart and when I finally trust him for who he really is and not for the god I made in my own image and the image of past authority figures the splinter-removing is gentle and quick and very precise.

I love that the phrase "We see through a glass darkly" in 1 Cor. 13, (where it also says, "for now we only see in part") actually uses the greek word ainigma -- enigma-- meaning something to be puzzled out. Yes, we each have a part, and when we we put these pieces together we see a bigger picture. I drove through the village of Longview on my way to High River again on Sunday. Another dramatic sun breaking through the clouds moment over this valley yet again. I felt the Lord reminding me again to take the long view. Back up from the six foot fence in front of my nose that represents today's problems. That fence which seems huge to a short person is nothing in comparison to the size and scope of the wider valley. It keeps me from seeing beyond my current, momentary worries and from seeing the big picture. Back up and see the BIG picture.

Abba, give us eyes to see and ears to hear and healed hearts to feel how truly good and kind and relentlessly loving You are. Help us to see with all the eyes you have for us, all the dimensions of your heart.

God is good. Very good.

[piano]

Charys,

Just wanted to let you know your last post blessed me very much.

May it return to you with interest.

Piano