voice at 3:30 am

Charys · Post by **Charys** » Tue Jan 11, 2011 2:49 pm

Karen, have I ever told you how much I admire you?

You are doing what the rest of us only talk about. To give up friends and family and to love people you haven't even met yet, who may not even understand what you are doing, is so...so... Christ-like.

Bless you sweet sister. I wish I could just give you a great big hug. It is twenty below zero here, there is a foot of snow on the front step, and although I see people on their way to work the sun won't be up for another hour at least. But ---we are warm and very well-fed and mostly well-paid and entirely too comfortable, yet we grumble. Just know that although we are on opposite sides of the world, you warm my heart and bring light and hope to my day to know that there are people like you in the world.

May Abba give you a special blessing today. Keep your eyes open for your "rose."

Charys

Jewels-inhisheart · Post by **Jewels-inhisheart** » Tue Jan 11, 2011 6:59 pm

Jessica has two books that i know of and web site.. The one i really like and has helped ME enormously ( its the one book i read right before i was taken into deliverance minsitry) i have as one of my all time christian favorites. In it she does talk about soul ties.

She has the other which i will God willing order wheni can.

AS with any book one should ask the Holy Spirit for his help guidance and check. For me there was this peace and " its real and from God "
"Om at peace about what she shares, I see nothing so far and i have read her book through maybe 3 times that goes against basic doctrine and orthodox christianity,,only expounds and explains some things that i think most of us are curious about and the scripture does hint at but do sent go into real deep.

Anyhow even i have more work to do with soul ties.

Karen its a new year and we all are goign through new phases and new steps in our walk., May this be a glorious one for u!

Be cautious though,,dont talk to idols. Let the Lord deal with them.. I wager the devils know u belong to the Lord. Have a fun vacation, and just unwind and spend some great romantic time with ur husband and leave any concerns in The Lords hands... Theres a time to work and a time to play...

anyamanee · Post by **anyamanee** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 7:06 am

I wish I could just give you a great big hug.

I felt that!

It's about 85F and muggy; overcast sky with pollution...and I have lived close to what you have (Ely, MN which isn't far from Thunder Bay, but no 'lake affect' thus we had the sub-zeros often too)
and this suites me more.

Do not think too highly of me. Yes, I am "doing it" but imperfectly and only by God's grace. Sometimes it isn't pretty. One seasoned former worker, now a counselor to workers, said, "we more or less bumble around for Christ". Which is all any of us do, right?

Bumbling and looking for my rose,

Karen

anyamanee · Post by **anyamanee** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 7:20 am

Be cautious though,,dont talk to idols. Let the Lord deal with them.. I wager the devils know u belong to the Lord. Have a fun vacation, and just unwind and spend some great romantic time with ur husband and leave any concerns in The Lords hands... Theres a time to work and a time to play...

Hi, very sweet of you. I will keep the Jessica Jones material in mind. I have to chuckle b/c the same name is of a woman who was a partner of us in the past...and knowing her I know to be opposite thinking on these types of issues.

I don't talk to idols, they talk to me (not so much anymore b/c i keep a spiritual distance), and I've 'talked back'.

I am finished w/vacation, but thanks...maybe I'll take another!

seriously we did say to each other recently,

"let's plan the next vacation time NOW so we don't let it slip by as in the past". We are required to take a month/year and oftentimes the 11th month comes and we still haven't taken any time.
We both anticipate things will get busy now; for example we have one fully up and running 'program for slum kids' in one slum, in the last district of Bangkok w/o a church; another 'kids program' slated to begin (thankfully w/a team of workers, we only have to get it going) end of January in another slum; a ministry center which houses our Thai partners, and the ministry is coming alive there, in a community famous for it's 'fierce ghosts'; other communities who have seen our 'programs' and want us to come into their communities;

not to mention our home community of Sathorn 13...where we are going to show the Jesus Film on 22 Jan. and then invite to further study about our God doing a Genesis-Jesus short course...All works in hopes and intention to plant churches, worshiping communities of white hot worshipers of the Lord Jesus King of Kings in spirit and truth...

NOt to mention my husband is on a start up board to bring Teen Challenge into Thailand; plus I homeschool my 16 yr old.

This is my life.

Love to all,

Karen

Post by **keilani** » Sat Jan 15, 2011 5:52 am

Don't know why I forgot about this but I've heard many of the great men of God speak on testing the spirits in 1 John 4 and then their own experiences with it.

This thread was brought to memory as I listened to Billye Brim tonight. Although she spoke on Hearing God, she mentioned Voices and Visions, a word the Lord gave her for the youth. She teaches on how Joel 2 and Acts 2 talks about God pouring out His Spirit and giving dreams and visions. The enemy though will counterfeit that in order to draw many away.

It is a good teaching on www.cfaith.com
Look up Billye Brim and then under video, it is "Hearing God." The whole thing is good but at about 23 min she speaks on Voices and Visions.

The other person I listened to this week is Bruce Allen on the RADIO broadcast on Sid Roth. The Wed teaching at about 6 min talks of his experience with angels and tongues but if you listen you hear him say when he saw the angels, he told the Father: there is too many to ask if they acknowledge Jesus having come in the flesh (I Jn 4:2).

BBrim in a nutshell teaches that you cannot ask a person that question because a person can say whatever. BUT if there is a manifestation of a spirit (ie. disembodied voice, vision, and she even mentions a person prophesying under a spirit (good or bad), you should ask if they acknowledge if Jesus came in the flesh and their answer will tell you the source so that you will not be deceived. The devil will deceive many and he's pretty good at what he does! But His Word, His Spirit and His Blood will keep us if we seek wisdom and understanding diligently!

shalom to all and if you get a chance, give the Word by BBRIM a listen!

anyamanee · Post by **anyamanee** » Sat Jan 15, 2011 10:04 am

Thanks....I can't seem to find that teaching by Billye Brim...on the cfaith site.

On the subject of testing the spirit, I did say, "if you are not one that worships God most High in Jesus Name, be gone"

and (when it manifested in full body) it stayed.

Ideas on how to get to that talk? I'd sure like to hear it...thanks again, Karen

Post by **discerning** » Sat Jan 15, 2011 4:02 pm

Ideas on how to get to that talk? I'd sure like to hear it...thanks again, Karen

Open the website w/the link above. Click Videos at the top of the page. Then click H in the listed alpha search. Scroll down to Hearing God (it's #5).

anyamanee · Post by **anyamanee** » Sun Jan 16, 2011 8:09 am

Hi, I plan to listen lest I fall into not heeding wisdom from others...but I have to say I get a huge check in my spirit when i read that the site is mostly health wealth and prosperity theology.

I reject that gospel as a false one.

Am I alone here?

Concerned,

Karen Elizabeth

Post by **keilani** » Sun Jan 16, 2011 9:06 am

the site is mostly health wealth and prosperity theology.

I reject that gospel as a false one.

With all love and respect Karen, I have not found any scriptures that says it is God's will for us to be sick and lack. No human parent ever wishes sickness and lack or poverty on their children. If you read Deut 28, it says that sickness is part of the CURSE and that curse comes through disobedience! Proverbs is FULL of scriptures that speak of wealth that comes from those who conduct themselves uprightly with God and man and for being diligent with what He has given us.

If you feel a check in your spirit, I would go to the Word and find evidence for your beliefs. The Bible is not only clear on what the will of the Father is, it would make the Cross worthless if Jesus came to give us healing but really it was never God's will. God's word never contradicts the Father's will; only human understanding and reasoning does. May He open up His truth to you.

1 Jn 3:2 Beloved I pray that thou mayest PROSPER AND BE IN HEALTH even as your soul prospers.

Is 53:4-5 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

Deu 8:18 But thou shalt remember the LORD thy God:for [it is] he that giveth thee power to get wealth, that he may establish his covenant which he sware unto thy fathers, as [it is] this day.

**This covenant was what He promised to Abraham in Gen 12:1-3, the blessing was to bless others INCLUDING Abraham as God's servant.

***study it in the original language if you want to understand it the way He meant it. Many nuggets there that our English language fails to communicate...plus we read with Western mindsets and it is a Book written in a cultural perspective we for the most part probably know very little about...but I think you understand that being in Thailand. Shalom!

anyamanee · Post by **anyamanee** » Sun Jan 16, 2011 3:24 pm

Oh--- we are on a totally different thread now.

The scriptures I have that counter are many many many.

I don't want to get into a battle of the book. I appreciate the need to pray for well-being. I am a big healing pray-er. I have seen miracle healings. One such was done but the ultimate healing didn't occur; the woman healed from 'deathbed' cancer never repented and turned to Christ; as a matter of fact once she fully recovered, after she sued her doctors for malpractice she got an even harder heart.

As for wealth. It is decitful. Who can say what is enough? I am not standing in judgement of anyone who wants to have health and wealth AS LONG AS it is for God's purposes. I pray for wealth for all my financial supporters. And health -- all the time!

My problem is this:

okay so you have someone who is struggling, let's say health. I have a true story. (a Thai woman, we'll call her E) She is believing, wanting so badly to believe if she just has enough faith, she will be cured.

She also is believing the prosperity gospel promises for wealth.

She is a part of the oppressed underclass. She has to sell her business selling hot soy milk out on the street b/c her health -- and then takes the money and reinvests in selling shirts. Less lifting and standing; more freedom.
She also joins an MLM as they sure talk a lot like her Prosperity gospel preachers that are from the USA and translated to Thai!!!

After about 2 months; she is totally decimated b/c 1..her health isn't improving (the MLM is a supplements/health products company) 2. she is broke again, because she got kicked off the street that claims "only food sales" and forbids selling the shirts; and the MLM isn't working out -- and so her husband sent her back upcountry to rest and regain her sense of self again..regain her faith...she is a casualty of this theology. She thinks she is 'just too weak, and doesn't deserve the benefits claimed'

So tell me, those who believe the prosperity theo, what is wrong w/my friend? She doesn't WORK hard enough on her faith? Legalism is so hard to get the Thai to understand and this feels pretty legalistic to me!

Okay so a few off the top of my head scriptures, why would Paul write in Romans 8, "I consider the SUFFERING of this world to be of no comparison to the glory to be revealed to us" if we are not to suffer?
Why does Paul rejoice in the afflictions that complete the suffering of Christ? Why does he think it's good that he recieved "a thorn in his side"?

And just today, reading about Jacob, what do you think of the fact that he never recovered from his limp?

What of how God uses the suffering of his servants in the world to promote the gospel?

"Blessed are the poor, for theirs is the kingdom..."

and on and on.

I work with the poor.

I cannot see any benefit in telling them, "if you just get right w/Jesus he will make you rich" when I have walked as an American who has NEVER lacked anything (even before age 36 conversion) but who has now forsaken a middle class life in order to bring them the gospel?

Why do we ask to "be like Jesus" who humbled himself, when lack of suffering is the opposite?

I do not say that people who follow this teaching (I'll leave calling it the HWP gospel, that is inflammatory) are not saved. And perhaps it is for some...I also SEE clearly that most, not all, but most people who turn to Christ improve their fanancial and health life. But not all. Then, there's we crazy people who "hear" things and move away to third world countries forsaking our American life.......

Just so you can know where I am coming from.

No offense taken; no offense meant.

May the Lord continue to keep you,

Karen Elizabeth

Post by **keilani** » Sun Jan 16, 2011 5:36 pm

Mat 5:3 Blessed [are] the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

What is in the kingdom of heaven? Is there sickness in heaven? Is there lack? God's kingdom in Heaven has much wealth and there cannot be sickness where the Source of Life and Light is...there is no darkness there, no shadow of turning. And Jesus taught the disciples to pray "your kingdom come, your will be done ON EARTH as it is in Heaven."

Rom 8:18 For I consider the sufferings of this present time not worthy of the glory which shall be revealed in us.

Sufferings (Gk Lexicon)

1) that which one suffers or has suffered
a) externally, a suffering, misfortune, calamity, evil, affliction
1) of the sufferings of Christ
2) also the afflictions which Christians must undergo in behalf of the same cause which Christ patiently endured
b) of an inward state, an affliction, passion
2) an enduring, undergoing, suffering

It is not speaking here of being poor but of the persecutions we must undergo as a Believer. Jesus was shunned in this world because He was a light in the darkness and John 3:19 says And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. Jesus spoke Abbas truth and the religious people of His day hated Him because it gave those who were under their religious control a freedom which God the Father intended us to live in from the beginning.

The scripture cannot contradict itself because God doesn't. IF Jesus is not a healer, it is better to encourage people to stay sick and not preach Him rather than add another god to the list of those they must obey. How can God speak of giving us the ability to get wealth and then command us to be poor? This is religion. Quite frankly it takes money to do His work and if money is evil, then His work is evil. It is the LOVE of money, that is THE ROOT OF ALL evil. Money is needed to fulfill His call. I would encourage you to seek Him in the scriptures because as long as you think the Lord contradicts Himself in His Word, you will never be able to reach the people He longs for with His Truth. It will just be another god devoid of power they must serve. What is the difference in the god you offer them? selah

Grace · Post by **Grace** » Sun Jan 16, 2011 6:03 pm

Hi, I must have hit the 'don't want to follow this topic button' by accident. I suddenly realized there were a lot of posts here.

Karen, I too am in a place like you. But we can't be in fear. You know, I'm in a place where many keep their ministries low key for the fear of persecution. Well guess what? Those people are left rather ineffective because of their fears. You Karen, go out there, boldly. That's what God wants you to do. Give yourself for this Gospel. For the kingdom of God is at hand and Souls are weighed in the balance.

I praise God for you. Bless you and may your prayers be answered. I pray that someday, when you receive your reward, you will hear, "Thank you for giving to the Lord, I am that life that was saved."

Grace · Post by **Grace** » Sun Jan 16, 2011 6:17 pm

As for the health prosperity gospel message I just came upon a beautiful poetic book called "The valley of Vision." Here is a portion that rings so true:

"Help me to see how good thy will is in all,
and even when it crosses mine
teach me to be pleased with it.
Grant me to feel thee in fire, and food and every providence,
and to see that thy many gifts and creatures
are but thy hands and fingers taking hold of me.
Thou bottomless fountain of all good,
I give myself to thee out of love,
for all I have or own is thine,
my goods, family, church, self,
to do with as thou wilt,
to honour thyself by me, and by all mine.
If it be consistent with thy eternal counsels,
the purpose of thy grace,
and the great ends of thy glory,
then bestow upon me the blessings of thy comforts;
If not, let me resign myself to thy wiser determinations.

anyamanee · Post by **anyamanee** » Mon Jan 17, 2011 6:10 am

{{{Grace}}} thank you so much. Our time is short. Why worry so much? My verse given today was these two: Seek first the kingdom and righteousness. All these things will be given unto you. Do not worry about tomorrow; for tomorrow will have enough worries on it's own. (approx quotes, Matt 6)

Valley of Vision, it's an old dear book. I know it well, a favorite among the intercessors I 'grew up' with. Yes, an "old" book; time tested. HWP theo is new. I hear only about 50 yrs old. Not even a generation.

Bless you too, Grace! May you be wise as a serpent and innocent as a dove as you minister.

Karen

anyamanee · Post by **anyamanee** » Mon Jan 17, 2011 6:29 am

Keilani, the kingdom has come -- in part, but not yet fully. There is more to come.

I do not believe Scripture contradicts and that is why i cannot accept the centered theology of "believe and you will be rich/healthy/comfortable. There are far far more scriptures but as I already wrote i do not want to be reduced to a 'scripture' battle.

Your teachers never answer this question directly; is the man who doesn't get healed just a second class son? We all know that there are some that are not healed. I have not yet seen anyone NOT get sick -- and die. We all know godly people who are now w/o jobs in the USA. Are they ones w/"not enough" faith too?

New Heaven/Earth is what you prop up as now.
Do not take my arguments for not teaching man centered HWP theo as i am arguing it's heretical. There IS a sense in which it is true. Ultimately.

But as in Psalm 16, i have the full riches as my inheritance already. I can rest knowing that.

What is most offensive is that it puts man and not God at the center. My family was sent here (by divine calling) to fight man centered thinking, replacing it w/glorious God centeredness.

I forgive you for this statement:

you think the Lord contradicts Himself in His Word, you will never be able to reach the people He longs for with His Truth. It will just be another god devoid of power they must serve. What is the difference in the god you offer them?

First: their gods have a LOT of power; they already "use" them to make them healthy wealthy, and thus all the more reason to stay away from this!

Second: It is spiritually abusive for you to write this to me. I render it powerless in Jesus' name. I do that for YOUR sake. Gen. 12:3.

I make no such statements regarding your ministry, Keilani. May God indeed bless you with true fruit and joy always.

Karen Elizabeth