documents or credentials

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Lillian
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documents or credentials

Post by Lillian »

what do documents signify in dreams?

I've had a few dreams where a friend of mine had to produce his documents.
IN one dream they were his credentials on paper.

And in another dream his documents were asked for, but when he presented them, they were mounted on the wall inside a U-haul and they were metal plaques. There were 2 of them.

Thanks!
He's not a baby in a manger anymore! He's not a broken man on a cross! He didn't stay in the grave and He's not staying in heaven forever!.....He's alive!....People get ready Jesus is coming!
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bjcollin
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Post by bjcollin »

Documents in this case almost seem akin to identity, ie he is being asked to prove or show who he really is. Documents to me are legal papers proving something or containing important information.

in Christ,
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Lillian
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Post by Lillian »

Thanks BJ.

that's what I gathered from the first dream, But in the second one the men who were asking for his credentials were not giving off good vibes. I felt like they were bad men, but I did not feel like he was being threatened.

And they were metal plaques this time as well, is there any significance to them being metal and not paper?
He's not a baby in a manger anymore! He's not a broken man on a cross! He didn't stay in the grave and He's not staying in heaven forever!.....He's alive!....People get ready Jesus is coming!
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bjcollin
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Post by bjcollin »

A plaque is a permanant mounting and a public declaration, ie the identity is sure and it is sealed. The uhaul to me speaks that he is hauling it around with him. The Holy Spirit seals us for the day of redemption. The enemy needs to stop harassing him once he becomes sure of who he is in Christ. Just some thoughts, hope this helps.

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Lillian
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Post by Lillian »

Wow that is very helpful.

As far as his knowledge of who he is in Christ though, he is pretty firm in that. He is a missionary in the Philippines and they move around a lot so hauling it around with him, makes sense to me. They have been doing a lot of declaring who they are to the muslim communities that they are witnessing in.

In light of this, I have a question. Everything you have said makes sense, but all of it is not revealing anything new.
So why the dreams?

I have had several dreams in the past few months that simply state the obvious. Up to this point I have concluded they were just for confirmation, because I had to have talks with the people involved, not because of the dream but just in the circumstance and the dream provided confirmation of what I was saying, but in these dreams with my friend, I don't have a need to communicate anything to him and if I did we are so close that anything I say, he trusts and vice versa.

So why these dreams which state the obvious?
He's not a baby in a manger anymore! He's not a broken man on a cross! He didn't stay in the grave and He's not staying in heaven forever!.....He's alive!....People get ready Jesus is coming!
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bjcollin
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Post by bjcollin »

The enemy has been harassing him, pour yourself daily into intercessory prayer for him and the ministry he is in. Are you being called to partner with him in at least prayer if not in more ways?

in Christ,
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Lillian
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Post by Lillian »

I am in ministry with him, we pioneered a ministry in the states and he is developing an arm of this ministry in the Philippines. He has known that he was called to the Philippines (his wife included) for a long time. And the door opened for that earlier this year, but not before we were an established ministry here. And it is quite evident now the need for it.
He just wanted to go and did not see the need for a ministry here, but the Lord has revealed otherwise. I currently take care of all the legalities, ministry wise and personally for them. I also head the ministry here and we are in a preparation period.

I do intercede for them, but i do see room for more.
Thanks BJ.
He's not a baby in a manger anymore! He's not a broken man on a cross! He didn't stay in the grave and He's not staying in heaven forever!.....He's alive!....People get ready Jesus is coming!
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dance-in-the-son
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Post by dance-in-the-son »

Maybe the Lord is confirming you are doing the right thing if it is obvious to what you are currently doing.

I am not getting anything as for interp..
Dance...
You have turned my mourning into joyful dancing.
You have taken away my clothes of mourning and clothed me with joy,
that I might sing praises to you and not be silent.
O Lord my God, I will give you thanks forever!
Psalm 30:11-12
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bjcollin
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Post by bjcollin »

Awesome!

Let me open this topic up in a totally new and another direction... I have noticed amongst missionaries that there seem to be two main schools of thought on "legality" when dealing with the other country where the missionary is working in. Some people feel that the missionaries should be following all of the remote country's rules to the T and be totally legal. And then there are also other missionaries that just go to the foreign country as inconginito as possible and let the rest sort itself out later if it ever becomes an issue. My knowledge on the Philipines is very limited to what is printed in VOM magazine and also to a trip that our local Chinese pastor Dr. Chen took there a couple of years ago. How do legalties work there?

in Christ,
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Post by Truth Seeker »

Lillian,

At first glance, I wonder if documents actually are symbolic of doctrine or like Bj said, it could be the enemy challenging who your friend is in Christ.
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Lillian
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Post by Lillian »

Let me open this topic up in a totally new and another direction... I have noticed amongst missionaries that there seem to be two main schools of thought on "legality" when dealing with the other country where the missionary is working in. Some people feel that the missionaries should be following all of the remote country's rules to the T and be totally legal. And then there are also other missionaries that just go to the foreign country as inconginito as possible and let the rest sort itself out later if it ever becomes an issue. My knowledge on the Philipines is very limited to what is printed in VOM magazine and also to a trip that our local Chinese pastor Dr. Chen took there a couple of years ago. How do legalties work there?
I'll try my best to explain according to my second hand knowledge.

There is a long standing relationship between my friends, another American friend of ours and another ministry in the Philippines that I don't have the history on. My friend, Will, has made several trips over the past few years and has established a relationship with a pastor there, while my friends were still here, in the beginning months of our US ministry, we donated money twice a month to help their ministry, with the understanding that Will and his wife would eventually be over there, joining them in ministry as a US ministry.

This pastor sponsored my friends for their 9G visas. They originally had 3 month visas that they renewed every 3 months and then finally applied for a 3year visa, for which I had to prepare missionary credentials for, proving they were actual missionaries from an established US ministry. (I don't believe that is related to the credentials in the dream, though)

As far as all of that is concerned, they did follow all of the rules and jumped through whatever hoops, and there were quite a few, with a price tag attached to each one.

This seems to be the only "legality" that they faced.
However, spiritual legalities, customs, traditions, mindsets, religious spirits, etc posed a finer line to tread.

American missionaries have a bad reputation over there ( and quite possibly so, in other countries as well) They are viewed as "vacationers" who do more money laundering than anything else. That is very sad.
It was said that the average missionary stays for 3-4 months and nothing is ever really accomplished.

Well, my friends have been coming against that mindset with a lot of "yeah yeah" lip service, but on the other hand they are showing the people that they are different because they have actually relocated indefinitely to the Philippines. So the people open up more to them when they realize that they have actually moved over there.
Another thing that they are thanking God for, is the establishing of the ministry here in the states.
Like I said they were just going to move over there solo, and sow their lives into that country. what they have found is they get more respect and more people listen to them because they are part of an established US ministry.

Right now they have favor with so many pastors, all over the nation, it is truly incredible.

I hope I have answered your question correctly.
At first glance, I wonder if documents actually are symbolic of doctrine or like Bj said, it could be the enemy challenging who your friend is in Christ.
That could be it as well, because they are getting so many results, in terms of people getting healed and born again (a large part of that muslims) as a result of the doctrine they are standing on. So many pastors have told them that what they preach is something they have not heard in that light before. Some pastors are repenting and some are turning away, but the proof is in the pudding!

A situation did come up after the first dream, where his motives were questioned, but one of the pastors over there was behind him 100%.
I don't get all of the details because they are so busy, but I will be in prayer for them concerning this recent dream and just in general.

Thank you guys so much.
He's not a baby in a manger anymore! He's not a broken man on a cross! He didn't stay in the grave and He's not staying in heaven forever!.....He's alive!....People get ready Jesus is coming!
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Lillian
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Post by Lillian »

I have noticed amongst missionaries that there seem to be two main schools of thought on "legality" when dealing with the other country where the missionary is working in. Some people feel that the missionaries should be following all of the remote country's rules to the T and be totally legal. And then there are also other missionaries that just go to the foreign country as inconginito as possible and let the rest sort itself out later if it ever becomes an issue. My knowledge on the Philipines is very limited to what is printed in VOM magazine and also to a trip that our local Chinese pastor Dr. Chen took there a couple of years ago. How do legalties work there?
I wasn't really satisfied with all that I previously wrote, so I have this to add.....starting with these scriptures, that I am sure you are familiar with:

1Peter 2:12 Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.
1Peter 2:13 Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;
1Peter 2:14 Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.
1Peter 2:15 For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:
1Peter 2:16 As free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God.


And:

Romans 13:1 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God.
Romans 13:2 Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment.
Romans 13:3 For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval,
Romans 13:4 for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer.
Romans 13:5 Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience.
Romans 13:6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, attending to this very thing.
Romans 13:7 Pay to all what is owed to them: taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honor to whom honor is owed.


Here is one for those who would oppose and say that he did not mean government, because how could He expect us to be in subjection to people that are not born again:

Colossians 3:22 Servants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God:
Colossians 3:23 And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men;
Colossians 3:24 Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ.
Colossians 3:25 But he that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath done: and there is no respect of persons.


There have been times when my missionary friends have had to come under authority and submit even though they were not in total agreement with doctrine.

They have also felt that they were being over charged by people in government positions just because they are American.

But I will tell you, because I know that they believe these verses that I have mentioned here, they did what they were asked to do and I know that God honors His Word above everything else.

I know that God knows the heart of my friends and because they were obedient to His Word, they now have favor beyond belief. The Lord Himself sees all and why would He bless lawlessness?

So in light of this I would say missionaries would do themselves a great service to follow every rule...doing so as unto the Lord.

It does make me think about house churches in China, for instance though. And places where Christians are being persecuted. Makes me say hmmm. I don't know anyone personally in that type of situation.

What can you offer in that area for rules and regulations?
He's not a baby in a manger anymore! He's not a broken man on a cross! He didn't stay in the grave and He's not staying in heaven forever!.....He's alive!....People get ready Jesus is coming!
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bjcollin
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Post by bjcollin »

IMHO We follow the rules of the world as long as those rules are not contrary to God's laws, then we have reason to have a course of civil disobedience and we follow God's laws. ref Acts 4:19