Pigeons attack

[charlie]

I am walking towards a field with a wooden ranch fence around it. I see a group of people. I walk on past them and then notice a flock of pigeons fly over my head towards the group.

The pigeons dive bomb the group and drop pellets on them and release some gas cloud which hangs around the heads of individual people in the group and those people then fall to the ground. As I watch in horror the attack seems to grow fiercer and the pigeons faster. I am struggling to understand what this is about and keep my distance. As the attack abates I walk towards the group and notice that the ones who had fallen to the ground had faces like birds...grotesque masks and painted...their eyes were very staring and looked horrifying.

I then find myself walking down a narrow path next to the pastor of our church. I am telling her of the attack and she is very solemn but does not seem surprised. She seems depressed.

mmmmmm....?

Grace
charlie

[Realisticdreamz]

I am walking towards a field with a wooden ranch fence around it. I see a group of people. I walk on past them and then notice a flock of pigeons fly over my head towards the group.

The pigeons dive bomb the group and drop pellets on them and release some gas cloud which hangs around the heads of individual people in the group and those people then fall to the ground. As I watch in horror the attack seems to grow fiercer and the pigeons faster. I am struggling to understand what this is about and keep my distance. As the attack abates I walk towards the group and notice that the ones who had fallen to the ground had faces like birds...grotesque masks and painted...their eyes were very staring and looked horrifying.

I then find myself walking down a narrow path next to the pastor of our church. I am telling her of the attack and she is very solemn but does not seem surprised. She seems depressed.

mmmmmm....?

Grace
charlie

Hi Charlie

Not sure about this but here are some thoughts to consider.

Pigeons are also doves. The thought came to me of something like news being dropped like a bomb.

After looking up pigeons I remembered that they produce "crop milk", which is secreted by a sloughing of fluid-filled cells from the lining of the crop. Both sexes produce this highly nutritious substance to feed to the young.

Crop milk is a secretion from the lining of the crop of parent birds that is regurgitated to young birds. They are found among all pigeons and doves where they are referred to as pigeon milk.

Do you think the pigeons were symbolic like doves bringing the Word of God and perhaps some cannot even accept the "milk" of the Word and it is revealing what was hidden? This would be a sad thing, but not surprising, to most every pastor.

Just sharing somethings to consider. Toss what does not witness to your spirit.

[charlie]

Thanks Realisticdreamz...I hadn't seen t in that way at all...will ponder and pray...

I had seen the group as the "sheep" in the fold (the field was green and fenced in). I see the pigeons as an attack of the enemy (for we war not against flesh and blood but against principalities and powers) which is aimed at the head...our minds need renewing...those who succumb are left fallen in confusion...eyes open but not seeing (the staring look in their eyes was alarming..bird brained...foolish...).

I see it as a warning for the church...my pastor was depressed...the battle for the shepherds is strong for they will not be able to help protect the sheep if the enemy attack takes them out....

We need to pray against spirits of deception, confusion, curses (coming to rest) amongst the people of God.

That's what I'm seeing anyway...

grace
charlie

[Charys]

Hi Charlie,
The past few days the Lord has been impressing this verse on me:

My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge; Hosea 6:4

The sheep are being bombarded with false ideas about who God is and his plan of salvation. The ancient question of satan appears over and over again in film, music, art, tv shows, books, comics, games ..... The old question is, "Did God really say?"

The ancient heresy of gnosticism, that God addressed through Paul and John, (especially in 1 John) still confuses those who are ignorant of the scriptures -in fact there is resurgence of gnosticism as seen in movies like The Matrix, or Inception, or books like The DaVinci Code and the TV series Lost and a plethora of internet sites (especially dream interpretation sites) that give the subtle subtle message that God and the church (the body of believers) has hidden the truth from us. Gnosticism has even infiltrated many churches in ways that look as innocent as doves (that are really annoying pigeons who drop their poop all over everything.)

This attack of the enemy is aimed at the head -gnosis meaning knowledge. I believe He showed me this week that this is where the battle is picking up. Even the elect are being deceived, by apparently innocent "doves" who keep dropping more hazy gassy ideas on their heads.

I had a dream this week that a town was inundated by crude oil. I wondered even in the dream how the town's greatest wealth could also be it's greatest hazard. Some little fires started that firemen had to scramble to put out. I realized that the crude oil is the wealth of dreams and revelation we are sent, but it is in crude form -unrefined- and unless dreams and visions are processed using the discernment given by the Holy Spirit, and unless this oil is screened through the given word of God in the Bible they are actually a hazard. Unprocessed, they cannot be used to fuel the tasks Jesus has given us and will only be a source of fires (controversy) and slip us up if we try to wade through them.

14 Remind them of these things, and solemnly charge them in the presence of God not to wrangle about words, which is useless and leads to the ruin of the hearers. 15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth. 2 Tim 2


In our reaction to dry dead theoretical christianity which seems like it is mostly a matter of splitting hairs and re-defining terms, some have headed for the other ditch, and have neglected studying the Bible and are thus vulnerable to attack due to lack of knowledge.

Your dream totally lines up with what I have been seeing.

--for your discernment--
edited to fix editing error

[Realisticdreamz]

Thanks Realisticdreamz...I hadn't seen t in that way at all...will ponder and pray...

I had seen the group as the "sheep" in the fold (the field was green and fenced in). I see the pigeons as an attack of the enemy (for we war not against flesh and blood but against principalities and powers) which is aimed at the head...our minds need renewing...those who succumb are left fallen in confusion...eyes open but not seeing (the staring look in their eyes was alarming..bird brained...foolish...).

I see it as a warning for the church...my pastor was depressed...the battle for the shepherds is strong for they will not be able to help protect the sheep if the enemy attack takes them out....

And wasn't the pastor walking down the "narrow road?" While I agree with the above, there is warning after warning after warning of the same thing throughout the Bible that the churches, prophets, disciples, shepherds should be aware. If they do not heed the Words of the Lord and of the Anointed in the Bible, will they heed your words? Revelation 1 - 3 does this rather vividly as well.

Just saying What new message is there if this is another warning for the church? We should ALWAYS be prepared for an attack by the enemy and yes, the Lord does forewarn us of whats coming.

Birds are certainly symbolic for spirits especially birds of the air. But Biblically speaking, pigeons are considered peaceful birds and clean enough to be acceptable sacrifices to God in the OT... and they are also doves. Were they other birds "appearing as pigeons?" You really feel they were evil spirits attacking?

We need to pray against spirits of deception, confusion, curses (coming to rest) amongst the people of God.

Amen! We most certainly do and is even more effective than repeating the same warnings given already by God Almighty... but can "God's people" really be cursed? The Bible does say that in the last days, even the elect will be deceived "if it were possible."

While I agree with Charys very wise statements concerning the happenings today and I would add to that to include the latest "New Age" religion delving in spirituality which they do not realize the danger of deception, bending and redefining the Word of God. Even God said he would remove His Spirit from those who will not hear Him... leaving them in a stupor. So I could also see through the Bible that it could also have this meaning.

By examples are some of the scriptures.

Deuteronomy 28:28 - The LORD will strike you with madness and blindness and confusion of heart.

Isaiah 29:9 Pause and wonder!
Blind yourselves and be blind!
They are drunk, but not with wine;
They stagger, but not with intoxicating drink.
10 For the Lord has poured out on you
The spirit of deep sleep,
And has closed your eyes, namely, the prophets;
And He has covered your heads, namely, the seers.

[Jesus also referenced this passage when referring to the disciples concerned about offending the Pharisees in Matthew 15. Also referenced in Matthew 23 referring to the blind who miss the point; full of judgment but lack the weightier purpose of the law, mercy and grace.]

Isaiah 42:18 “Hear, you deaf;
And look, you blind, that you may see.
19 Who is blind but My servant,
Or deaf as My messenger whom I send?
Who is blind as he who is perfect,
And blind as the Lord’s servant?
20 Seeing many things, but you do not observe;
Opening the ears, but he does not hear.”

Isaiah 56:10 His watchmen are blind, They are all ignorant; They are all dumb dogs, They cannot bark; Sleeping, lying down, loving to slumber.

Isaiah 59:10 We grope for the wall like the blind, And we grope as if we had no eyes; We stumble at noonday as at twilight; We are as dead men in desolate places.

Zechariah 12:4 In that day,” says the LORD, “I will strike every horse with confusion, and its rider with madness; I will open My eyes on the house of Judah, and will strike every horse of the peoples with blindness. [about Deliverance of Jerusalem after all those who all gather against her]

Zechariah 11:17 - “Woe to the worthless shepherd, Who leaves the flock! A sword shall be against his arm And against his right eye; His arm shall completely wither, And his right eye shall be totally blinded.”

John 9:41 Jesus said to them, “If you were blind, you would have no sin; but now you say, ‘We see.’ Therefore your sin remains.

John 12:40 “He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, Lest they should see with their eyes, Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn, So that I should heal them.”

2 Corinthians 4:3 But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, 4 whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them. 5 For we do not preach ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord, and ourselves your bondservants for Jesus’ sake. 6 For it is the God who commanded light to shine out of darkness, who has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

Ephesians 4:17 This I say, therefore, and testify in the Lord, that you should no longer walk as the rest of the Gentiles walk, in the futility of their mind, 18 having their understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart.

1 John 2:11 But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.

And I like this one: Psalm 146:8
The LORD opens the eyes of the blind; The LORD raises those who are bowed down; The LORD loves the righteous.

Interesting dream. And while dreams do forewarn us of attacks by the enemy; these attacks are really fruitless against those who are grounded in Christ, know and fight with the Word of God... they do not lead to bringing stupor, blindness, spiritual death to the faithful. Of course, we are also instruments of the Lord to bring TRUTH, the gospel of Christ, and extended hands of love to those who will hear and accept His Word.

Of course, it is the Holy Spirit who should reveal the truth in meaning of the dream to you... for your discernment.

May the Lord give you wisdom, discretion and strength here. God bless you and your family.

[Realisticdreamz]

P.S. Just for clarity; I am not in disagreement with you. Just offering other things to consider that I also could see symbolically in the dream. Toss what does not fit...

[piano]

Hi charlie,

I have a couple thoughts for you to keep or toss...

First thing that came to my mind was Carrier Pigeons (Homing Pigeons) that are used to deliver messeges.

From a "pigeon fact page" (not wiki:)
The earliest large scale communication network using pigeons as messengers was established in Syria and Persia about 5th Century BC.

Carrier pigeons used in Warfare.
gas bombs=(fuel?)(spiritual food?)

Perhaps it is the messege dropped that is corrupt, being sent through Christians but used by the enemy to do their bidding.

Peace,

Piano

[charlie]

And wasn't the pastor walking down the "narrow road?" While I agree with the above, there is warning after warning after warning of the same thing throughout the Bible that the churches, prophets, disciples, shepherds should be aware. If they do not heed the Words of the Lord and of the Anointed in the Bible, will they heed your words? Revelation 1 - 3 does this rather vividly as well.

Just saying What new message is there if this is another warning for the church? We should ALWAYS be prepared for an attack by the enemy and yes, the Lord does forewarn us of whats coming.

Thanks Realistcdreamz...absolutely...its all in scripture!! I do think that dreams can have a rhema quality about them though, in that they underline an established Word...in this case...nothing new as you rightly point out (nothing new under the sun after all according to the writer of ecclesiastes!). For me a dream like this makes me sit up and pay attention-first for myself, my family and local church and then more generally...as the Spirit leads...there is a generic principle (pray for your leaders in every sphere) and then we pray that the Spirit leads us to pray specifically for specific situations. That is what the seer gift is about isn't it?

The thing which I sit up and pay attention to about this dream is that the group were in a safe field (fenced in)-in other words they looked ok and safe, in the fold, so to speak, but, as Charys unpacked more fully, they are susceptible to influence in the realm of thoughts...patterns of thinking...beliefs...unbeliefs...etc. I am increasingly aware of the level of confusion...(note not necessarily a wishy washy confusion...some dogmatic people can be very confused).

Essentially, this is a dream which calls me to pray...maybe because it pertains to my area of gifting (teaching) I have seen it in this way...

The reason I do not see the pigeons as 'good' in this dream was that there was no discernible good fruit in that none of the people seemed strengthened by the attack...all seemed disoriented, confused and those who had fallen of course seemed in a worse state...you are right to point out, that said that the Word of Truth exposes our hearts and that the fallen could have been those exposed by the Word...I am not seeing in in that way in this dream though for the reason I give above.

Regarding curses...false beliefs essentially function as curses in that they keep us away from the freedom( and thus in bondage) released by truth. We see curses too one dimensionally at times. Like it or not we are all vulnerable to deception (the BIble makes this clear).We are all works in progress, being renewed...each day we make choices...some start strong and flounder, some start weak and strengthen...that is why we are so reliant on God's grace...and that grace he has seen fit to entrust to us in the form of spiritual giftings for the building up of His people...discernment, teaching, word of knowledge...and so on...

Thank you for those passages and for your thoughtful contributions...it all helps sift through!

grace
charlie

[Demon_Buster]

Pigeons and doves constitute the bird family Columbidae within the order Columbiformes, which include some 300 species of near passerines. In general terms "dove" and "pigeon" are used somewhat interchangeably. In ornithological practice, there is a tendency for "dove" to be used for smaller species and "pigeon" for larger ones, but this is in no way consistently applied, and historically the common names for these birds involve a great deal of variation between the terms "dove" and "pigeon." This family occurs worldwide, but the greatest variety is in the Indomalaya and Australasia ecozones. Young doves and pigeons are called "squabs."

Pigeons and doves are stout-bodied birds with short necks, and have short slender bills with a fleshy cere. The species commonly referred to just as "pigeon" is the Feral Rock Pigeon, common in many cities.

what I am getting is spiritual warfare ...the dove descended on the lord when he was baptized ...and they where used in sacrifice in the bible...so my thought is spiritual warfare.

Toss it if you think it don't fit

[charlie]

My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge; Hosea 6:4


This attack of the enemy is aimed at the head -gnosis meaning knowledge. I believe He showed me this week that this is where the battle is picking up. Even the elect are being deceived, by apparently innocent "doves" who keep dropping more hazy gassy ideas on their heads.

Thanks Charys...yes, there is a lot of gnosticism around in different forms...I'm seeing that in order to ignore the obvious basics (loving God and neighbour and all that entails) we are tempted along many ornately decorated and enticing walkways...

grace overflowing
charlie

[charlie]

.

From a "pigeon fact page" (not wiki:)
The earliest large scale communication network using pigeons as messengers was established in Syria and Persia about 5th Century BC.

Carrier pigeons used in Warfare.
gas bombs=(fuel?)(spiritual food?)

Thanks Paino...interestingly, pigeons were being considered as carriers for bacteriological warfare towards the end of World War II...



grace
charlie

[charlie]

what I am getting is spiritual warfare ...

Yup!

grace
charlie

[Realisticdreamz]

Hi Charlie,

I was reading the Bible and ran across verses that really spoke to me and I also thought of your and your husband's dream here.

Job 12 (Job answers his friends)
7 “But ask the animals, and they will teach you,
or the birds in the sky, and they will tell you;
8 or speak to the earth, and it will teach you,
or let the fish in the sea inform you.
9 Which of all these does not know
that the hand of the LORD has done this?
10 In his hand is the life of every creature
and the breath of all mankind.
11 Does not the ear test words
as the tongue tastes food?
12 Is not wisdom found among the aged?
Does not long life bring understanding?

13 “To God belong wisdom and power;
counsel and understanding are his.

The reason it spoke much to me is because I have had a lot of dreams that I see as significant and they had animal symbols in them. Also, one dream my son very wisely told me "if you pay attention to the animals, they will tell you a lot." Since then, I have paid more attention to the symbols of animals in dreams and I have learned a lot because of it.

Anyway, I hope this blesses you also and to see how God can use animal symbols in dreams to speak a message. After all, He also created them.

May God bless you with full understanding.

*Edited to be clear so that nothing unintended is read into here, or construed to imply something hidden in this post that is not; but the sole intent and purpose is to provide scriptures that we could learn from the animal symbols in our dreams; which I found interesting in the scriptures.

[imavessel]

I immediately thought of how pigeons were used to send messages in secret in times of war.

These messages, often to get the upper hand over the enemy.

In this case, these "messengers" were dropping "bombs" on the ones below and completely taking them O U T.

I also thought of pigeons being like doves, . . . but not doves. The dove, beautiful and white and the pigeons being fairly nice to look at, but truly very dirty birds.

Whether we think of it or not, and knowing that He has already been victorious, . . . there is a war that rages on at all times.

There are so many teachings, belief, etc., where folks believe this or that and that it is some special revelation from God . . . that may be, or may be in part or . . . may not be at all.

But it is said in the last days that many turn with itching ears . . .

And the ones in your dream that have fallen and then were grotesquely morphed into birds . . . seems as if they had fallen to wrong messages . . . wrong teaching, and then belief . . . not something beautiful and true as the Creator and how we are fashioned after Him, . . . but into some weird "creation"------with grotesque features and painted up . . .

You saw yourself on a narrow path, . . . and even in the "field" were not with the group that fell "prey" to the band of evil messengers that seemed to take out much (or all) of particular groups . . . asd you watched.

You were on the narrow path with your pastor . . . and she was not surprised----because seems the Lord says she has discernment of these things . . .

But she was depressed, . . . and it could be just her heart is as God's, that ALL would know Him and the true Him, not some falsehood . . .

Or could be that in your own church or gathring there are those that are falling for something outside of His truth. & Of course no one wants to see their congregation be tempted away or taken out unknowingly.

[charlie]

I also thought of pigeons being like doves, . . . but not doves. The dove, beautiful and white and the pigeons being fairly nice to look at, but truly very dirty birds.

Yes. Like but NOT THE SAME AS. That's the key. The symbolism here is what's important (ie what a pigeon might symbolise in this context.)

2 Cor. 11:13-15
For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ. 14And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. 15It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.

In fact pigeons are often called the rats or vermin of the air and pigeon can mean victim/dupe or even a concern/responsibility or a trick/swindol...

Thanks for unpacking those thoughts Imavessel...they concur with what I and the pastor are thinking...and praying about...the pastor has been through a season of being separated from the 'flock' through various circumstances so its interesting that in the dream she was not in the field...and I am on the verge of moving on past this 'flock' as we are moving soon as a family...it fits on so many levels...

Thanks for your help...

grace
charlie